HELP! Seitan has a funny taste. Need a better recipe.

janiejoey

janiejoey

Cathlete
Hi Gang,

I'm trying so hard to make meatless meals, but man, this is not good.
My recipe is half vital gluten with half water and seasoning. Cooked on low heat with a broth type for 1 hour. Then fry it. Suppose to taste like beef. I haven't had any beef for 15 years, but this is not good at all. Does anyone have a better recipe than this? How about a vegan recipe for chicken or pork?

For all your help, I'll send a free sourdough starter, culture made by me (and a site for a free recipe with instructions) for anyone with a great recipe. I'm trying to eat a more vegan way. And I feel I need to contribute for all your troubles.

Thanks all,

Janie

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
Janie,
One of my favorite ways to have seitan, or tempeh for that matter, is to turn it into vegan barbecue pizza. You can make your own sauce or use a bottled one (one with high fructose corn syrup). Then, I make a vital wheat gluten, oat bran, spinach pizza crust (takes about 40 seconds in the food processor). Meanwhile, I simmer the seitan shredded into medium chunks, in a saucepan on med/low heat with the barbecue sauce. When the dough is rolled out, spread evenly with the seitan mixture, add any other optional toppings such as grilled veggies, carmelized onions, roasted garlic, roasted peppers, vegan cheese, etc. I then bake this on my pizza stone for about 10-12 minutes.
BTW,
Today is bread making day for my sourdough and sprouts so keep your fingers crossed:)
Mattea
 
I haven't made a lot of seitan, but it seemed to turn out better when I used whole wheat flour with maybe some gluten flour, but not all gluten flour. I used the recipe from the "Farm Vegetarian Cookbook." I posted it a while a go.

You make a dough from the flour and water, knead it to develop the gluten, then soak and rinse. The kneading and rinsing is done a couple of times. Then I cooked it in broth made from tamari (soy sauce), ginger and garlic, making sure that it was simmering and not boiling (boiling makes the gluten puff up and not get dense like meat).

I have used seitan in chili (and one guest refused to believe it wasn't meat!), stir frying with sliced onions and red pepper for a 'fajita" type stir fry, or in a seitan "bourguignon" recipe.

How bad did your seitan taste? And what was it like?
I've had not-so-good, doughy tasting seitan using mixes (usually vital wheat gluten as main ingredient). Maybe they just don't make as good a gluten as the kneading method? Pick up some ready-made seitan, so you'll know what it is supposed to taste like.
 
Janie:
Here's the thread where I posted the recipe for seitan:

http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?...303&mesg_id=217303&listing_type=search#217505

Another way to make it taste "meatier" is to add some tomato sauce or paste or even something like V-8 juice to the broth you cook it in.

By the way, I never thanked you for the sourdough starter. I did get it, but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. I'm trying to figure out a way to incorporate it into dehydrated wheat sprout bread, but I haven't experimented with that yet!
 
Hi there Mattea and Kathryn,

Mattea, meet Kathryn, Kathryn meet Mattea. Mattea, is incorporating sprouts into her sourdough recipe. You may want to share some info together to get a wonderful sourdough bread. Hey, whatever recipe you decide on, please let me have the recipes.

Mattea, thank you for your advice, I'll put the seitan in pizza and see how that tastes. Kathryn, I'll try different recipes, and see how that goes, and purchase one that is in a mix. At least I'm trying. I can see the potential of it though.

Take care, and thank you for your expertise info,

Janie

PS It's really nice to hear from you both again.

PSS Does this mean I'm off the hook for giving you a starter? Just kidding, if you both want another starter, I'll be happy to send it your way. Just let me know.

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all ."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
Hi Janie,
I actually emailed Kathryn offering advice on how I was incorporating the sprouts, hopefully she'll see it and be able to respond to it if she has any questions. Anyway, I have 4 BEAUTIFUL loaves of sprouted whole grain sourdough bread!!! And it is SO sour!!! Can you tell I'm excited? It tastes almost like vermont cheddar cheese, lol. Unfortunately, as you know from my previous emails I wasn't really following a single recipe with precise measurements, but I can tell you exactly what I did and used if you're interested, just email me.
Thanks again for the starter!!! I still have some of the dry and now I have some reserved in my fridge so I don't need anymore, but if I manage to screw it up later I'll need more later, so I'll keep you mind:7
Mattea
 
>Hi Janie,
>I actually emailed Kathryn offering advice on how I was
>incorporating the sprouts, hopefully she'll see it and be able
>to respond to it if she has any questions.

Í guess I'll have to go into the office to check my email (which I don't do often in the summer)!

I just found a recipe for 'sourdough' sprout bread, that you make by leaving the ground sprout "dough' out for 24 hours before drying.
 
Good Morning Kathyrn,

If it isn't any trouble, could I have the recipe? It sounds very healthy.

Take care,

Janie
 
>If it isn't any trouble, could I have the recipe? It sounds
>very healthy.

I'll have to check specifics (as to times, etc.) when I'm home, because I finally dragged myself into the office to check email (843! new messages, of which about a dozen were worth my time!), but it's very easy, just sprout wheat berries (or a combo of wheat and kamut or spelt or rye) for about 2 days (soaking overnight, then rinsing 2-3 times a day until the 'root' about 1 1/2 to 2 times as long as the grain, and the 'grass blade" is about the same length as the grain). Then make sure not to rinse the berries for about 8 hours or so (I'll check specific recs) so they aren't too wet.

Grind in a food processor, knead into a dough, and to make it "sourdough," let the dough sit at room temp overnight (I'll check timing again) and either bake in oven at lowest temperature, or dehydrate (dehydrating keeps the enzymes intact, as heating over about 110 degrees destroys enzymes).

I've made wheat-only version (with added raisins, as I recall) and it was surprisingly sweet. Nothing added but the raisins (and it didn't need that to be sweet).

It's an unleavened bread, of course, and very dense.

You can also make chapati by rolling the dough out thin and dehydrating until done. I plan to try that as soon as a dehydrator I ordered shows up.
 
Kathyrn,

Sorry you had to go to your office, what you have said here is just fine. Thank you for the instructions, I will make do. Glad it wasn't a waste of time for you.

Sincerely,

Janie

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
Nancy,
I had to go into the office anyway, but it was overwhelming how much spam I had!

I'm in the process of making my sprouted wheat/rye bread. I sprouted the grains in a sprout bag (a linen bag made for sprouting grains and beans in particular) for two days, tasted them to make sure they were at the right stage of development (along with the sprouts being the same length as the wheat berry). They are quite sweet, but not overly so.

After they spent the night unrinsed (and were just slightly damp), I ground them in my food processor (that I finally took out of the box...I've had it for months, but I never got around to setting it up or, obviously!, using it).

Make sure to get it past the "chunky" stage,until it forms a ball on its own (it looks very much like bread dough at this point).

I had about 2 cups of wheat and 1 cup of rye, which needed to be processed in two batches in my 7 cup processor.

After that, I kneaded it to develop the gluten a bit more (rinsing and wetting hands as necessary to keep it from sticking), then divided it into two loaves, each about 1 1/2 inches high.

One is in the oven drying/baking at 175 degrees (with a bowl of water in the oven to keep the crust from getting too dry), and the other is sitting under a damp towel on my counter top, hopefully capturing some good bacteria to make it "sourdough," and ready to be baked tomorrow, after sitting almost 24 hours.

The one that's baking/drying is set for 4 hours, but it will probably take more time, because the instructions I used say 250 degrees for 3-4 hours, so I'm counting on maybe 1-2 hours more than that.

We'll see how it works!

It would also make a good flatbread, in a dehydrator, but I don't have my dehydrator yet.

I've also found a tortilla shell recipe for the dehydrator using frozen corn, and I might make some of those as wraps once my dehydrator arrives.
 
Kathryn,

Thank you very much for the recipe as stated above. I will try it out very soon, and let you know how I do.

Take care,

Janie

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
>Thank you very much for the recipe as stated above. I will
>try it out very soon, and let you know how I do.

Hope it turns out better than my attempt! My first 'bread' got very dry on the outside without drying all the way on the bottom (I turned it over the last 2 hours, but that wasn't soon enough, maybe?). It's not that great, and may end up being part of a squirrel sandwich (as in ä sandwich FOR squirrels, make of bread and p.b., and not a sandwich OF squirrels!).

My 'sourdough' version didn't fare very well, either, though I made more of a flat chapati out of it. It may have been out too long, or caught a not-quite-good culture from the air. It's already a squirrel sandwich!

I'm not sure what went wrong, but perhaps I should have followed the directions instead of ad-libbing with temp! Or just stuck with the wheat instead of doing wheat/rye.

Oh, well, I'm just experimenting for now, and as long as it's not going to waste (I can feed the critters outside with it...which I hope will keep them from bothering my garden!).

I do think that making a regular bread with some wheat sprouts added would be very yummy!
 
Kathryn,

Here is some info that you might be interrested in.

Amaranth flour: Substitute for up to 1/4 of the amount of wheat flour
Barley Flour: Substitute for up to half the wheat flour
Buckwheat Flour: Sub for up to half the flour
Chestnut Flour: sub for up to 1/4 of wheat flour
Oat Flour: Sub for up to 1/4 of flour
Quinoa Flour: Sub for up to 1/2 the wheat flour (imparts raw flavor)
Rye Flour: Takes longer to rise
Triticale Flour: Sub for 1/2 the wheat flour with one rising

Anyway, experimenting is a good thing, maybe use 1/2 wheat and 1/2 rye. On web sites, there are a lot of rye sourdough recipes. Hope this helps a little.

Janie

"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
 
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