Help, please - P90X vs. Cathe question

allwildgirl

allwildgirl

Cathlete
Okay, educated crowd... why can I lift so much heavier with Tony than I can with Cathe? And the same with push-ups. Is it because with Tony I'm doing the reps at my own pace instead of trying to keep up with Cathe and crew? That's the only thing I can think of.

It's frustrating me. I came off my P90X rotation expecting to be able to lift heavier with Cathe and I can't seem to at all. It's not doing oodles for my self-esteem.
 
I can't believe that you can't lift any heavier with Cathe after all the muscle you built!!! (I saw the pics!) Maybe it is because Tony puts another muscle group in between (ie shoulders, bis, tris) and Cathe tends to work each group to exhaustion in a round (ie bis, bis, bis). And of course, there is the setting your pace difference. Also...by setting your own pace with Tony..I seem to get a lot more recovery time in between sets. I don't know, but don't let it get you down...You look great!!!!


Debra

Bite off more than you can chew. Then chew it---Ella Williams
 
I agree with Debra. I think it's the sequenceing of the exercises. One muslce group gets a longer rest inbetween, because you work another muscle group or 2, before you go back to the first. Cathe works one muscle until exhaustion before working a different one, hard to go heavier this way. Cathe also (but not always )does alot more repetitions. Cathe's push ups are right in a row, with a very short rest. P90X has alot longer rest inbetween pushups. I think Cathe and P90X are both great to have, as they have such a different way of training. It's good to confuse the body like that. I remember doing a gym styles rotation, thinking how strong I was, and then went right into a Slim Series rotation and could barley lift my 5#ers because of the high reps. LOL!
I bet when you go back to P90X, you will not have lost your strength.

~~Dallys~~
www.picturetrail.com/keeponthesunnyside
 
Absolutely - number of repetitions, and amount of rest between sets. I thought the same as you, until I did a one week Tony, one week Cathe rotation and noticed for example of military presses with Tony I could use 20 pounds with Cathe 15. I realized it was because with Tony I did 2 sets maximum of 8-15 reps (usually was around 11 on these). With Cathe often it's three sets with reps of 12-15 or higher. And there is not as much rest between sets. And a lot of Cathe's workouts are more enduranced based with higher reps and less rest.
 
Okay, that makes me feel better. Christine, you're doing military presses with 20 lbs? Eep!!! *looks at wimpy shoulders*

Dallys, you look fabulous. And your puppy is so adorable. And I want your workout space. Can you tell I checked out your Pictrail?:p
 
I quickly increased the weights I was lifting when I did P90X. I had never imagined before that I'd be able to do a 20# bicep curl for more than 2 reps! Or a 1-arm tricep extension with 15# (or that I'd have to go out and by a new dumbell to challenge my back), but I did with P90X.

One thing that I think makes a BIG difference is the sequencing of the moves (circuit or push/pull rather than straight-set work) and the recovery periods (both the active-stretch breaks and the recovery for one muscle group that you get when working the next exercise, for another muscle group).

I understand your frustration: P90X got me off my knees for push-ups, though I still did some one knees (like the pyramid/triangle pushp-up and other narrow push-ups), and after my P90X rotation, Gym Styles came out, and I was down to my knees again pretty quickly when doing the many push-ups at the beginning of the chest/triceps workout (again, the recovery wasn't enough for me, IMO).
 
Thanks Kathryn. I, too, was using 20s for the first round of the strip set at the end of Back and Biceps, then yesterday during BM2 found myself using 12s. 12s!!!!! Ah well, as long as the muscle is getting worked, I suppose I'll have to suck it up:)
 
I was curious as to what Cathe series you are doing now?
Would it help if you paused the dvd player for a full minute between sets?
I was thinking I would move on to Cathe's pyramid series after P90X.

I am surprised by the strength I have with P90X. Yesterday I jumped from 15 to 20lbs for heavy pants and lawn mowers. I honestly can go to 25's next week. I'm not use to grabbing anything over 10-15 lbs for upper body!
 
Shelley,

I am so glad you asked this question! I just finished P90X this week and will begin Cathe's December rotation tomorrow. I have been subsituting Cathe while doing P90X, usually an IMAX instead of PyloX or KPC instead of KenpoX. Well, this was my recovery week and I decided to do LIC instead of StretchX...true there is no comparision, I just wanted to :) I could not finish the biceps reps with Cathe at her weights and was struggling with some of the other upper body sets. I was dumbfounded! I was humbled by the experience but I am thinking (and hoping) this change will confuse this body of mine in a good way.

I appreciate everyone's take on the reasoning behind this.

Thanks,
Diana
 
Cynthia - I have been playing around with the new workouts over the past week, and I'm starting the November rotation tomorrow. I was using 25s for the backwork in P90X and used 15s with Bodymax 2 yesterday and honestly couldn't have gone much heavier.
 
>Would it help if you paused the dvd player for a full minute
>between sets?

I found that after doing P90X, it was hard to get back into Cathe. Then I gave myself permission to add in longer rests between sets (in some workouts, like PLB and GS back/shoulders/biceps, I feel I really benefit from the extra recovery time). It's helped me get more of the P90X benefits (strength and muscle building) from Cathe's workouts (which are more endurance oriented). And it's more like what one would do in a gym: resting from 1-3 minutes between sets for the same muscle group (the shorter period for muscle building, the longer period for strength building).

That's one of the advantages of working out to DVD's rather than in a live class: you can take as long a recovery as you want!
 
I think this is why Cathe weight workouts can be so frustrating sometimes. You just never seem to increase your weights once you get to a certain level. With P90X you can see tangible results and every week you are adding some weight, even if it 0.5 pound platemates. I feel like I am going round and round in circles with Cathe sometimes with all those varied reps. Up down, 2 sec 3sec, pulse 5 times, 4 sec up 2 down, you know. I think that is great for variety and for endurance but not so great for strength and mass building. Even if you feel the burn with Cathe, and are challenged every time, you are still reaching for the same weights once you get to that certain level of fitness. If you using the same weights, the same reps, how are you growing, how are you getting any stronger than the previous week???

If you want to get REALLY strong and pack on some serious muscle, I really think P90X is the way to go. With Cathe S&H and Gym Styles may suffice, but that is it. All the rest are endurance. I am always amazed at how much weight I can lift on some lifts with P90X. That said, there are exercises in the gym, like the Tbar row, that I should have be able to lift heavier on considering my Cathe history. I really think gym style lifting, with gym style equipment, can bring you to a new level of strength and muscle gain. If you don't stand around and talk, of course.;)


My only complaint, P90X, why didn't Tony make a CD for total body on time crunched weeks. Weeks where you either don't have the time or don't have the energy to do a workout every day. That would have been nice. Like 2 exercises/body part, 60 min....Oh well, I guess that is not "bringing it".
}(
 
>
>Dallys, you look fabulous. And your puppy is so adorable.
>And I want your workout space. Can you tell I checked out
>your Pictrail?:p

Thank you Shelley! I thought you also looked fabulous in your P90X picutures.:) Yes, I'm lucky to have my whole basement for my workout room. And my puppy is adorable, I agree.:) LOL!


~~Dallys~~
www.picturetrail.com/keeponthesunnyside
 
Hi,

I am glad to hear that others were experiencing the weight plateau after lifting with Cathe for a long time. It was so hard to get past a certain point. The only real progress I saw, before starting p90X was when I started regularly incorporating different push ups once a week. Then I was able to increase my weights on the gym styles. It became very frustrating not to ever see any progress....I guess that's why I finally bought p90X. I'd tried shaking it up as many ways as I could with Cathe and finally decided it just wasn't going to happen. Although I love Cathe's leg work, I've given up on that too. I couldn't make any progress there either. Now, I only use those when I'm absolutely bored with my new program or want to remind myself about good form.

That said, I'll still buy any of the advanced workouts that she produces because I love her style and overall they are still very well produced. I've never had an injury doing anything that is in her routines and that is important.

Tracy
 
Hi Shelley!

I experienced the exact same thing as you are. I actually had to go out and buy a 40# DB for back work in P90X. After I ended my time with Tony, I stubbornly refused to lower my weights as much as I should have. I have injured myself TWICE in the past month because of it! Ugh. My solution was to switch to circuits which I had rarely done before and had to lower weights for. Now, I am over the ego problem :p and use the weight that gets me to failure with however many Cathe has me do. I do pause the DVD between sets and find that it helps immensely.

You look awesome and gained an impressive amount of muscle, so don't worry. Oh, I also haven't lost any of the muscle I gained either. :)

I hope this helps, I am operating on very little sleep and am chest deep Christmas decorations!
 
Hi all,

I found this thread very interesting as I had seen many posts on P90X and everyone sounded quite thrilled about it. My curiosity was growing as I love Cathe's workouts and can't imagine working out with anyone else. I had been wondering what was so great about P90X and how it differed from Cathe but this thread pretty much answered the questions I had.
Still.... I wanted to know if doing a Cathe WO with a challenging wt where you can't finish reps... then doing P90X... then going back to the Cathe WO.... if you are able to do more reps than before with the same wt you had used with her previously ( even if you still can't finish all the reps). I guess I really want to know if the strength gains of doing P90x translates to Cathe's workouts in a more subtle way because I find it so surprising that from the feedback it appears that it doesn't and I think it should... in some way.
Also how do you compare the muscle definition and mass with both i.e.
before Cathe-After Cathe vs before P90x-After p90x ??
I am truly amazed at the feedback about strength and muscle gains of P90x ...it makes me want to try it !
Is it fun to do ?? Are the exercises different?
 
Hi Traci-lee -

I haven't been on here much these days but realized your question wasn't answered.

I finished the X in November and was going to start again on 1/1/07 but decided to start again today or tomorrow. It will be 5 weeks on a maintainence routine. I decided to stick with BB (TJ/MS) for the 5 weeks so can't compare my before and after weights with cathe. I did hear from mspina that she was able to increase her weights in cathe a lot after X. I don't think she posts much but you could always PM her.

The 2 are very different. P90x is all dumbells and body weight bearing excercises, less cardio, and yoga. For me this worked great. Interestingly enough it doesn't use dumbells for chest -it's all push ups. I went from 0 of the boys to 32!

Appearance wasn't really the main objective for me but I would say I definetly had great improvement that way. I'll post a link so you can see. The biggest improvement was lower body (like many women) my toughest area. I think body weight excerices helped a lot in giving a leaner look.

http://forums.beachbody.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5082996357/m/306102296/p/12

Pic at the top and a link to slideshow.

From the folks doing X (I know Shelley did awesome with out this) that I post with - those that followed the diet - got best results. I still have my coffee (but with skim milk now) and had to GREATLY increase my protein. For years my nails peeled off (really gross I know) and for the 1st time in 20 years not so - so it must be diet related.

Anyhow the boards are going to be crazy over at BB - with the million dollar rollout etc which is starting this week - but feel free to PM me. We've created a "home away from home". Dave set this up but the server is down today.

All the best!

Editted to say my son (18) is doing it too and getting great results.
You can chose to do 8-10 reps or 12-15. I did the 8-10 reps to build size. I'm planning on that again this round. My goal is to be a success story for BB as showing results are possible even when you aren't a young thing ;) plus I could really use the 10k with 2 kids in college next year !
 
Shelly...I'm so glad you asked! I was wondering the same thing!
I did BM2 yesterday...and I could barely lift the weight I do in P90X!

Thanks all...
Alicia;-)
 
Hi Robyn,

Thanks for responding. You look fabulous !!!! ...you definitely have a beach body... Best of Luck !!!
I'll definitely think about trying P90X.
 
I think one has to start thinking about weights as TOOLS and not numbers. Use the weight that is appropriately challenging for the exercise - and forget the rest. }(
 
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