Discouraged

nancy324

Cathlete
I'm back after not visiting this forum or working out for about 3 weeks. Looking back, I see that I was doing Cathe's strength and endurance workouts for about 6 months, and, considering the amount of work I put in, did not really get results I could see. I can feel the toning in my muscles, and I'm a little stronger, but I didn't tone up enough for it to be really visible in the mirror.

I had my annual physical recently and the doctor said everything is good. They said my weight is ideal on the BMI chart, and my waist to hip ratio, which they like to measure, is also very good.

Okay, I'm healthy and I'm very grateful for it. I know that I'm in better shape than most women my age. I know that exercising is preventing the muscle loss that usually comes with middle age, and I know it is preventing osteoporosis, which I was tested for and don't have.

But where's the part where you get to look just a bit more lean and muscular? Do you really have to work out 6 days per week to get just a little bit of that? Can't you get just a little bit gorgeous working out 3-4 times per week? Am I the only one experiencing this?

-Nancy
 
Did you ever initially lose weight Nancy?? I mean, when you very first started exercising? was that recently? Jog my memory. I know for me, a Loooooonnnnnnggggg time ago, I lost approx 15 pounds when I first started exercising. But lately, even after adding weights to my regime, I can't tell you that I lost that much. My body is pretty comfy where it is at, and to get any lower I dip into deprivation zone. It is just a matter of if I wanna go there..if it is worth it...

I'm sorry, but I am a big believer in this: If you want to lose weight, significant FAT, you will have to feel DEPRIVED. You know why?? Cuz it requires you to give up some of your favorite things, or atleast have them MUCH less frequently. I always get on a big pity pot when I diet..thinking to myself "Oh, now why can't I just have this ice cream. BUT I work out so hard!!!" Whine. Whine. I am sorry, but giving it up, to me, is deprivation. That is dieting!

Maybe it is this that is hard for you? It is so hard for us to give you advice without knowing your eating habits. But, NO, it is not possible to even look a little gorgeous working out 4 days a week IF you don't have the right diet. If, on AVERAGE, you are eating more calories than you are burning, you will gain fat. Right now you basically are burning everything you take in, so you stay the same. This is basically how I usually am. I never gain weight, never lose it, and if I gain muscle, well, usually I just look BIGGER. Because I have not lost that layer of fat. Sometimes this is a good thing. In this state, you are assuring you are getting enough energy to fuel muscle building and you are maxing out in that area. That means more calories burned at rest, which means you can eat MORE without gaining weight. If you like eating, of course this is a PLUS!

I remember your last post and how we all tried to talk you into not giving up, which I am glad to see you didn't...just took a short vacation!:) Please give us an idea of your diet if you want us to help you. If not, you probably already know that is the area in which you are lacking, yes?

Don't get so down. Remember, health is far and away more important than looks in the long run. Run over to the other posts and reread what Annette says. She will have you thinking right in no time!!

Janice
 
Wow Nancy!

It sounds like you are in super shape! Your BMI and waist-to-hip ration are great! Do you mind me asking if you have evaluated your expectations of yourself lately? Please don't put too much pressure on yourself to look a certain way, especially if your body isn't genetically "geared" towards that look. If you look good, and feel good, and are in good health (which is a biggie, take it from a cancer survivor) what more could you REALISTICALLY want? Okay, I know we all want that well defined, chiseled look, but for some of us, myself included, it just isn't going to happen unless we devote more time to it than we can realistically afford to. I think a lot of women forget that most of those with the look we long for put A LOT of time into their training. Some, like Cathe, even do it for a living. Take a good, realistic, long look in the mirror. I bet you look pretty darn good, especially if you're not comparing yourself to someone else!! Remember, you are beautiful just the way you are!!!:)

God bless,

Denise
 
Janice-

No, I never lost weight in the beginning, nor was I really looking to lose weight. I started exercising over 6 months ago. Janice, I'm not really looking to lose much weight, I wanted to shape up and tone up. I'm not sure exactly how your response addresses my post. I feel like I'm missing something??

Regarding diet, I have an appointment with a nutritionist this week. She has me keeping a list of everything I eat this week. I hope she doesn't faint when she sees how much diet coke I drink. :-(

Yes, it's true about the short vacation! I appreciate the value of exercise even if it doesn't make me look like Cathe Freidrich. :-(
 
Denise-
Congratulations on winning your battle with cancer. You have gained a perspective that is very wise, very right, and very helpful to me! Thank you very much for your post.

-Nancy
 
Nancy - I am no expert and really don't have the perfect advice for you. But did want to give you a big cyber hug! Hang in there girlfriend. Looks like you are going thru one of those "blah" phases. I have been there. Ya' wonder why after all the workouts... you just don't feel better? Hang in there.

Talking to the nutritionist should be good. You probably have a worse self-perception than you normally would giving your "blah" state. Remember, being healthy is most important! Maybe try mixing things up a bit. I just started BFL and I love it! I feel better than I have felt in months! I work out less hours a day than before, and am now more focused on eating right. The wonderful thing is I am not even hungry!

I don't know... maybe find something to focus on other than the workouts themselves. Maybe BFL or Weight Watchers would be good for you right now???? (not that you need to go on a diet?!!) But it might be something to keep you focused on something to make you feel better!?? Or maybe join a club or the YMCA to mix it up a bit. Maybe a change is really all you need? '

Just my 2 cents;) Cheer up Sweetie!
 
Food for thought (long)

Nancy,

I disagree with Janice on the whole deprivation theory. I've been struggling for almost 2 years to lose 10 to 15 lbs. I work out pretty consistently & thought I was eating a decent diet. I don't binge. I don't drink soda of any sort (diet or otherwise). I eat vegis & was watching my complex carbs (breads, pasta & potatoes). No matter how intense my workouts, I couldn't lose weight.

People with experience in WW & other nutritionally based diet programs kept asking me if I was eating enough to fuel my body. I tried fitday.com & found I was eating about 1700 calories a day (an average over a month's time). I tried to do a modified BFL or Body RX. It wasn't working.

I'm 5'6" & weighed 149 lbs, 4 weeks ago. Someone on YaYa's posted about a program called Physique Transformation. I read their material. Don't you know the first thing these guys tell you is that as a society we are chronic undereaters. Remember the thread regarding the calorie requirements (http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?...ic_id=43675&mesg_id=43675&listing_type=search)? Even I posted, there's no way that could be right. So, I started this program PRAYING it would work. Fearful that increasing my calories was going to make me blow up like a balloon. This program "forces" you to eat a lot of carbs, complex & simple, a lot of protein & low fat. It also says but doesn't track to drink A LOT of water--120 oz. With all the water I'm drinking there's no way I could drink anything else right now. LOL So, I started. Low & behold, I lost 2 lbs in the first week. So, ok, I say, it's all water weight because if I don't drink that much water, I gain a pound right back. Literally overnight. But wait, the next week my calories go up 200 calories. What happens, I lose another pound. So, maybe I'm actual not losing just water weight but some actually body fat. My goal is to lose that 15 lbs & get that "Cathe" definition that we all want so badly. So, I'm following this program. It's a lot of work & it's time consuming but it is working. There is a support group & you can call these people for help if you need it.

When I started entering my nutritional information into this program, I was SHOCKED at how much fat I was eating. I have always thought I had a pretty decent diet. I found that I really didn't. I was eating more fat & less protein than I knew.

As for getting toned in 6 months, something that I have discovered from my body is that while I was making strength gains, I really wasn't pushing myself all that hard. I increased my barbell curl poundage maybe 5 lbs in 6 months, doing squats, I may have increased my poundage by the same lousy 5 lbs. Since taking a new stance--I WILL HAVE A BIKINI BODY BY MEMORIAL DAY, I have been really pushing myself. I've increased my squat poundage 10 lbs in just a month & my curl poundage 5 lbs (that's a little more difficult for me). I actually broke a plateau on my static lunges last night & increased 5 lbs there, too. I quit being "afraid" of the weight. I wasn't afraid of bulking up but I was afraid of "hurting myself" & wasn't challenging my muscles like I could. I made a conscious decision to really push myself. While I've only lost 3 pounds in a month, my arms are starting to take on a new shape. I can actually see my delt muscles; that cool little bump at the top of my arm-- look at Cathe's picture on the cover of Power Hour. Look at her arms. I'm getting that definition in my arm. It's faint but it's there. DH actually commented on it the other day. Talk about a "go me" moment. Usually I say "hey, do you see this?" And he'll humor me & say "yeah, cool, babe." Lately he's to ME "hey do you see how cool your arms look?" So, now I go around flexing at him. LOL

Oh & I've cut out cardio completely for a while. I will start doing it again in a few weeks but no where near the extent to which I was doing it before. A max of 3 times a week & only 20 to 30 minutes in my target range (so a total of 30 to 40 minutes a workout). I can't wait to start running again. I want to run in the Race for the Cure in May.

So, my advice to you, go visit that nutritionist. I think that is awesome, its something I would really like to be able to do. Fortunately, this program I'm using is pretty good (I HOPE). But don't be discouraged if she says you are eating garbage.

And consider cutting down on your cardio & INCREASE THOSE WEIGHTS UNTIL IT HURTS! When Cathe says that body part "is flaming," be right there with her. Work so hard you have to grunt (keeping good form of course) to make those last few reps. I get my husband to "talk" me through my sets--"come on, don't be a wimp. You can do, this push/pull. Don't give up. That a girl." It's silly but it works for me.

Sorry this was so long but I wanted to encourage you. Don't give up, Nancy. It takes work (I know you know that). Let us know what the nutritionist says.
 
Hi Nancy! I've felt the same way you do now. I've been working out for 18 yrs. & I've never seen such a dramatic difference to me as when I discovered BodyRX. I thought I was knowledgeable in nutrition & once I did a food journal combined w/reading BodyRX book I had a real eye-opener! This isn't a plug for BodyRX program its just that I wanted to finally understand what a "clean diet" really entailed & this book gave it to me. I found out that I knew virtually nothing about nutrition. I also found the secret to my workouts after all this time. I have said this before you need to try different combinations of workouts but staying on each one for 6 wks., taking a tape measurer to see which workouts will work for you best. You had said before that when you weight trained heavy you felt you were bulking up & clothes were fitting you tighter. Well they will in the beginning because your packing on much more muscle but after a while it will get distributed & it will balance itself out. Cardio should be intense (interval training) IMAX2 if you have it & perhaps Cardio Kicks or someone else for kickboxing or running if you prefer. I've already stated before to you about eating your dinner for lunch & your lunch for dinner. Maybe try eating 5 small meals a day instead of 6 as I had suggested to you before. Throw in Pilates or Yoga & let us know what you did for the next 6 wks. & what your results have been & maybe if that didn't work we can try to come up w/something else. I know how you feel I'm still working on tightening up my lower abs even more but I'm the kind of person that won't accept that this is all there is to me. I know I can look better & w/summer coming around the bend I'm going to do it & so can you!! Your only going to see the results you want if you put your mind to it wholeheartedly & w/dedication & determination but I also want you to be happy w/yourself & the way you feel. Good luck sweetie! Kathy:*
 
RE: Food for thought (long)

I just wanted to say that this was very informative and helpful information. I have felt the same way Nancy is feeling and have been debating whether or not to continue working out so much. When I started working out it seems like all I heard was if you want to lose fat you have to do cardio. It's nice to hear a different point of view because I dislike cardio. I would much rather lift weights!!

Thanks again for words of encouragement.

Nancy - I hope knowing that you're not alone, helps. I know it helped me to read your post because I was beginning to feel like I was the only person that wasn't seeing changes in her body.
 
Nancy,
You actually might have made some visible changes, but you see yourself everyday and can't recognize them. I sometimes look in the mirror (that I masochistically put in front of my exercise space }( ) and am discouraged at the cellulite that is still on my legs, and that they aren't firm and toned like they FEEL they should be after my workouts. Then I try to do a little reality check and remember how I looked a year ago, after slacking off on the workouts for many months. It was much worse. Now I wasn't even too shocked at my naked bod in a hotel room mirror (whereas last year, I was appauled at what I looked like).
 
Ladies-

Thank you all so much for your supportive responses! Now I remember why I love these forums. FitNut, I love the new name! How funny to see YOU with only 11 posts!!:D

Deborah and KathyH, I have been doing the dreaded "food journal" now for several days because the nutrionist, who I am meeting with on Tuesday, wants to know everything I eat or drink for a few days in great detail. It IS an eyeopener. Everything I eat is so proceessed. Wait, that may not be fair. Just because my salad comes out of a bag doesn't mean it isn't just vegetables, and just because tuna comes out of a can doesn't mean it has lots of additives. On certain days, however, like yesterday, the quantities of diet coke and Health Choice ice cream are a bit over the top. I am facing this appointment with a mixture of trepidation and fascination.

Maybe I'm expecting too much for $150, but I plan to speak with the nutritionist about having more energy, lowering my cholesterol, better weight control and meeting my fitness goals! I also want to speak with her about having my body fat percentage measured and where to have it done. Hey, while I'm there I'll ask her about Body Rx and Body for Life and Weight Watchers too and what kind of workout routine she thinks works best!

If I like her, I'm sending my husband. }( She'll have a FIELD DAY with him!! If he goes, I'll let you all know what she recommends for weight loss, as my husband has at least 20 lbs. to lose.

Kathryn- great to hear from you and good for you! Those hotel room mirrors can be murder. :) You are right, it is very possible that I just can't see my own changes. To anyone who is just starting out on a new program, it's a good idea to take a photo before you begin. Progress photos are sometimes the only way to see changes.

Thank you all for making me feel less alone in my struggle. I'll report back with the results from the nutritionist next week. Take care!

-Nancy
 
Nancy..
When I refer to "weight", I am meaning fat weight. I was simply saying that if your diet is not clean enough, you will never look like Cathe. It is possible that since beginning exercising your appetite has gone up and you are eating MORE. That would make you not lose as much fat. Without an underlying medical problem, most people end up not looking any different because they either don't work out hard enough or they eat too much.

I will admit that the opposite sometimes holds true, like Fitness Goddess describes. But I would say that is not very often. Usually you can't keep upping your calories and dropping fat. Deprivation, to me, is eating 4 chicken wings when I really want 10. It just sucks. I mean, yeah, I know I CAN have the chicken wings but who can eat only 4?? I am one of those people that is better off without them all together (for weight loss). Of course, you could insert your favorite food here.

I think it is more as Denise says. You probably do look great. You probably have changed the distribution of your weight into more muscle and less fat. You are stronger. AND you are not alone. I feel the same way as you atleast one day per week!!

Take care and keep us updated...

Janice
 
Nancy,

I can tell you right now Healthy Choice might be "low fat" but they get their good taste from SUGAR. That's going to make it very difficult to get the definition you're looking for.

I do agree with you that tuna is fine & so is "bagged" salad. Nothing wrong with those things at all. It's what we do to those items that gets us.

I don't think you are expecting too much for your money. I would expect a lot, too.

As for measuring body fat, there are tools on the web for that. You just need to take your measurements & the tools calculate it. I don't know the formulas or where to find them otherwise, I'd give 'em to you. I can tell you if you do a search for Francine's posts here, she has posted a sites a couple of times. If you find them, I recommend taking your measurements a couple of times on different days to get an "average." Body fat measurement is pretty subjective unless you pay a fortune & get one of those water measurement things.

As for which of the "diet" programs work best, if she picks one, IMHO she may not be worth the money you are paying. All of those programs are based on good sound nutritional principles. It's a matter of being consistent & sticking to them. YOU have to be the one to make those programs work.

If you don't have a lot to lose, WW may not be for you. I only had 15 lbs to lose & it just didn't work for me & I know others that say the same thing. The reason I think it didn't work is because their points are VERY general. If you weigh 150 lbs or less, you can eat 22 to 25 points. Well, what if someone is 4'11" and weigh 150. I know the nutritional needs are different than someone that is 5'6" and weighs 150. See what I mean? Just because those two people weigh the same doesn't mean they have the same nutritional needs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing WW. I think it is a great program & have seen it work for a lot of people. It just didn't work for me.

Anyway, keep us posted about your visit with the nutritionist.
 
Deb-

You said "I can tell you right now Healthy Choice might be "low fat" but they get their good taste from SUGAR. That's going to make it very difficult to get the definition you're looking for."

Why would eating sugar make it difficult to obtain definition? Is there an underlying assumption in your comment that if I'm eating a lot of sugar I can't be getting enough protein to support muscle development, or something like that? What is the connection between the two? Thanks!

-Nancy
 
I think eating sugar makes you crave carbs and tend to overeat. It's just extra calories.

Another aspect of the sugar things if that lowfat/nofat junk like ice cream and cookies just contain more sugar calories. They don't have less calories just because they contain less fat. But my first point I think is what is cogent to your problem. Eating sugar for many people makes them nibble, get more hungry and often eat too many total calories for Cathe-esque bodies.
 
Hi Mogambo! Good to hear from you again. Guess I missed everybody.

Okay, so you are saying that the ultimate problem with eating sugar is that it makes it difficult to get truly lean. I totally agree with you. The doctor may say that my BMI is fine, but I'll bet if I had my body fat percentage measured it would not look good. No chart can convince me that this tire around my middle actually belongs there!

There is no more esoteric reason why sugar interferes with muscle development? What about that if you're eating a lot of sugar you're probably not eating enough protein to support muscle development? Anything to that?
 
Sorry, I should have been more specific. If you're eating a lot of sugar, you aren't going to lose the body fat necessary to obtain the definition. A lot of stuff has "hidden" sugar. You can check labels but if you don't know the "chemical" names that companies use to hide the sugar you could be eating it. Usually when stuff is low fat, it's loaded with sugar. They "food industry" has done a number on us with that. They fooled us into buying low fat products buy those things still have a lot of sugar.

So, it's not just low fat that you have to watch out for. It's low sugar.

Hope that helps.

Came back to say that I don't think sugar would interfere with muscle development because a small amount of sugar is in ALL foods (yeah, even meat). It's just empty calories, like Magombo said.

Also, remember though, our bodies are fueled by carbs, so don't be afraid of carbs like rice, potatoes & vegis. It's just those bread & pasta carbs that you have to use more moderation with.
 
I haven't seen any high falutin' experts make any pronouncements on this, but I also think sugar makes the body puffy/retain water. Sugar, like salt, makes us thirsty and we drink more and retain it.

I wish I could sit on your shoulder and give you encouragement and self-talk to resist the many nutrient-poor calorie choices that many of us get so addicted to!

See if maybe there aren't any "mindless snacks" you are consuming. When I cut back on smoking, first I cut down the mindless ones and only smoked the ones I had to have. The ones if I didn't smoke I couldn't think of anything but "I want a cigarette. I want a cigarette." Then when I got down to the Final 5-7 a day, I went cold turkey. After several months I was almost never tempted. It took a year before I was grossed out by cigarettes and never wanted one. Still in my mind though I can remember them fondly and I quit 19 years ago. But thinking about smoking, or eating Girl Scout cookies or a gallon of ice cream are absolutely harmless activities!!! Smelling a freshly opened pack of Camels or a jar of peanut butter are also freebies.

I hope some of this is helpful.
 
Re: the "tire around the middle&am...

Hi Nancy!

Great to see you back! I wish I had some magic bullet to add here about the muscle definition. I don't, and I will "second" the very sound advice you've gotten here from some of our resident experts (and wow, do we have some good ones!) I especially think it's probably a great idea to take a clear-eyed look at how hard you're pushing yourself on your strength training. That suggestion really hit home to me, and I suspect that's part of why I don't find myself making huge gains in muscle definition. I'm sure gonna take a close look at that.

You said "No chart can convince me that this tire around my middle actually belongs there!" Girl, I hear ya. Me too. I recently had my annual physical and had a long talk with my wonderful internist about the 10 pounds that have been trespassing on me, and mostly on my midriff, since I turned 40. All my "chart" measurements were fine -- weight and BMI within my age & height "zone," resting pulse really low, good muscle tone, kudos for all that from the doctor. But that spare tire -- it does NOT belong on the body I've been comfortable with for 40-something years! If you really feel that you have a spare tire you'd like to be rid of, maybe my experience with this will be helpful to you.

My interist said he could see that I was disturbed about that mid-body fat (he called it "normal midlife fat deposits" -- isn't that an awful term?) and so he wanted to help me find a way to tackle it sensibly.

He suggested that I should keep doing what I have been doing workout-wise, and that I should spend a few weeks working on modifying my diet in fairly simplistic, live-for-the-rest-of-my-life ways. He said NOT to rush out and start some program indiscriminately. Rather, I should read and take notes as if I were studying for an exam from several types of books, and treat this research as a self-taught nutrition course of sorts.

In terms of specific diet goals, he said that most of his women patients my age had responded very well, both weight and health-wise, to a basically low-fat, low-carbs, higher-protein plan. For research materials, he said he liked "the common-sense gist" of low-fat high-protein diet plans such as The Zone, SugarBusters, and Protein Power -- NOT Dr. Atkins, which he thinks is a heart disease-promoting fiasco (and I know some doctors disagree, but mine felt really strongly about that). He also highly recommended Dr. Howard Shapiro's "Picture Perfect Weight Loss" (our Honeybunch has always been bullish about this book) for general food-awareness training. He also recommended reading a book focused on the nutritional and other needs of menopausal women -- he recommended Dr. Christiane Northrup's books and Ann Louise Gittleman's books. Last, for me because my cholesterol is also genetically at risk, he also suggested reading "The 8-Week Cholesterol Cure" and focusing on the diet components of that program that were compatible with a low-fat high-protein approach.

From this research, I should then formulate a sensible low-fat, low-carb, high-protein weight loss program, and then a lifetime nutrient and calorie plan, for myself based upon my likes and dislikes and my activity needs, and then I should do some meal planning and shopping planning.

He also strongly recommended that I food-journal while I was researching, and then while I was "dieting." I've been doing that and have found that I was consuming FEWER calories than I thought, FEWER grams of protein than I thought, and MORE fat than I thought. Hmmm.

I left his office that day feeling reassured but also a little annoyed because his advice struck me as sort of generic, nothing I couldn't have figured out myself, and because it placed a lot of work on my shoulders. But as I thought it over and accumulated the reading materials he suggested (some of which I already owned -- don't we all!), I decided that his approach was wise. First of all, I sure could have figured this all out for myself, but up until this point I obviously haven't. And second, I am not overweight at ALL by some measures, and by no measure am I seriously overweight. But I got myself into this condition and I'm an intelligent and educated woman. It is absolutely right that I should shoulder the responsibility of becoming better informed about not only what I SHOULD eat, but about what I DO eat and why, and that I should be responsible for altering my eating habits permanently.

So - that was three weeks ago. I have now read and taken notes on five books, and I have food-journaled and become more food-aware already. I am still working on a meal plan -- not really my forte, I admit -- but I am already finding myself shopping more wisely and cooking and eating more sensibly. And I might add that I really didn't think I was doing any of that in an unhealthy way before, but I've sure found things to change for the better, for myself and for my family. I haven't lost any weight yet but feel, for the first time in a long time, pretty confident that the weight will gradually come off and pretty remarkably undistressed about it -- I just feel like I'm finally getting a handle on all the factors involved, you know?

One last thing -- my doctor suggested taking stock every 3 or 4 pounds -- he thinks that after I've lost 4 to 7 pounds I might well decide I'm fine where I am. I'm not there yet, obviously, but he might well be correct.

That advice reminds me of what some of our wise Forum members have said to you, Nancy -- re-think your own goals periodically, and try to take a fresh look at yourself. Sometimes I think we don't see the forest for the trees. Take care of yourself and be proud of what you have accomplished, as well as ambitious about what's yet to be conquered.

Again, great to have you back with us!

http://www.clicksmilie.de/sammlung/sport/sport003.gif Kathy S.
 
Hi Nancy,

I missed seeing you on the board, but didn't know where you went - I must have missed your last post before this one. Glad to see you back!

I have a couple of things to add. Perhaps you aren't seeing the results you want because you haven't yet found that magic combination of cardio vs. strength training, or you haven't found the type of workout best for you.

I worked out for several years with no discernible change. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I discovered I was doing too much cardio and not enough heavy strength training to meet my goals. Perhaps a few sessions with a knowledgeable personal trainer might help get you on the right track.

On another note, I'd like to chime in on the sugar issue. There are a lot of hidden sugars in all kinds of food and drink. And yes, as someone mentioned, it can make you "puffy." Check out The False Fat Diet by Elson Haas. He talks about several common foods - sugar a main offender - that cause women in particular to swell and retain fluids.

You mention drinking a lot of sodas and didn't say whether they were diet or not, but if they're not - you're drinking a ton of sugar. Take a look at the nutrition info on the can. My boss' favorite, Pepsi, lists a whopping 41 grams! Just wanted to mention that to ya, 'cuz most folks don't realize how much the soda habit can contribute to sugar/calorie intake.

Hang in there and let us know how it goes with the nutritionist!

Angela
 

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