deadlifts vs good mornings.
- Thread starter cinza
- Start date
kathryn
Cathlete
From what I've read, good mornings are meant to target your lower back (and should be done slowly, with light weights). They are basically the same movement as doing back extensions on a special bench. Deadlifts of any kind target the hamstrings more. Makes sense to me, seeing where the weight is placed for each one.
It gets confusing when 'THe FIRM" does quarter deadlifts (too fast) and calls them "good mornings"!
It gets confusing when 'THe FIRM" does quarter deadlifts (too fast) and calls them "good mornings"!
Hey Cinza! By the way I saw your picture a while back and meant to tell you that you look absolutely darling. Loved the photo.
Anyway I just wanted to comment on the deadlifts again in this post as well as refer back to your earlier post. It may be that you are doing them absolutely correctly but they may not be for you. I have this problem with triceps kickbacks. I know my form is good but I just don't feel it like I do in other exercises. As far as good mornings go I am not a fan. I think they put way too much stress on the lower back. There are other back extension exercises that are very effective without all that risk of injury. Do you have a big physical therapy ball? You seem like me with a lot of equipment. There are some great exercises you can do on those for the hamstrings and the lower back. Talk to you soon. Best wishes, Cyndie
Anyway I just wanted to comment on the deadlifts again in this post as well as refer back to your earlier post. It may be that you are doing them absolutely correctly but they may not be for you. I have this problem with triceps kickbacks. I know my form is good but I just don't feel it like I do in other exercises. As far as good mornings go I am not a fan. I think they put way too much stress on the lower back. There are other back extension exercises that are very effective without all that risk of injury. Do you have a big physical therapy ball? You seem like me with a lot of equipment. There are some great exercises you can do on those for the hamstrings and the lower back. Talk to you soon. Best wishes, Cyndie
kimroberts
Cathlete
After I broke my back, I started doing a modified Good Morning. I sit straddling a bench with the bar on the rack behind me. I lift the bar to my shoulders and bend forward at the hip, attempting to put my chest down on the bench between my knees. Then I dig in deep with my heels as I'm pushing up. You still get an awesome workout on your hams and adductors and it's not quite so stressful on the back. Try it!
kimroberts
Cathlete
RE: How innovative
You're welcome. If you like that one, here's a variation on deadlifts. Do your deadlift with dumbbells rather than a barbell. Then when you are bent over at your lowest, do a "horiozontal shrug" or two or three for lack of a better term. All it is is adducting your shoulder blades using your rhomboids and lower traps. It's just another way to sneak in a bodypart without using so much time.
I am lucky enough to work with trainers from all different parts of the country. I live near Nashville, TN and it seems that "wannabe" country singers moonlight a lot as trainers and then come to Nashville to hit the big time. Last year when I did a little competitive bodybuilding, they all competed against each other for who could make me hurt the worst. It was an awesome learning experience for me and wound up being great fun for them too.
You're welcome. If you like that one, here's a variation on deadlifts. Do your deadlift with dumbbells rather than a barbell. Then when you are bent over at your lowest, do a "horiozontal shrug" or two or three for lack of a better term. All it is is adducting your shoulder blades using your rhomboids and lower traps. It's just another way to sneak in a bodypart without using so much time.
I am lucky enough to work with trainers from all different parts of the country. I live near Nashville, TN and it seems that "wannabe" country singers moonlight a lot as trainers and then come to Nashville to hit the big time. Last year when I did a little competitive bodybuilding, they all competed against each other for who could make me hurt the worst. It was an awesome learning experience for me and wound up being great fun for them too.
Kim,
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-01 AT 12:23PM (Est)[/font][p]perhaps you can help..
you have had some pretty cool experiences...
is there somethng better than lunges and squats for just the glutes... ?
I really can get the glutes working (even if not the hamstrings) on a deadlift if i engage the glutes before starting up ...
and I think rear leg lifts or kickback with resistance is probably good...
Do you have any good ideas?
Do you know if different moves develop the glutes differently?
I am envious that you got help with training like you did.
how did you break your back, how did you recooperate? do you have problems with your back and working out?
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-20-01 AT 12:23PM (Est)[/font][p]perhaps you can help..
you have had some pretty cool experiences...
is there somethng better than lunges and squats for just the glutes... ?
I really can get the glutes working (even if not the hamstrings) on a deadlift if i engage the glutes before starting up ...
and I think rear leg lifts or kickback with resistance is probably good...
Do you have any good ideas?
Do you know if different moves develop the glutes differently?
I am envious that you got help with training like you did.
how did you break your back, how did you recooperate? do you have problems with your back and working out?
kimroberts
Cathlete
RE: Kim,
If you've never done walking lunges, add them to your routine today. If you have done them, try one of these two variations:
First, do them walking backward. Careful not to hyperextend the low back.
Second, when walking forward, add what I call a "ballerina lift."
Instead of just picking up your back foot and moving it forward, do a glute squeeze like you would in a step class and the bring that foot forward and get ready for the next one.
Have you ever done 21 guns, for biceps? Do the same thing squats. Full squats for a couple of sets. Then very small ROM just near the top of the squat for a set. Then very small ROM near the bottom of the squat for a set. Then go back to full squat. Hurts so good.
Also, if you have an exercise ball, put your heels only on the ball and do those old-fashioned glute raises we all did in aerobics class a few years back. When you get really good, do it with just one leg at a time on the ball and the other in the air.
I don't exactly know how I broke my vertebra. It is the L5 vertebra and it has both transverse processes broken. The doctor suspects that it was either just from repeated stress of exercising over the years. Or it could have been during childbirth--I had a long labor and then had a C-section. I never knew a specific moment when it happened. It just started with a dull ache that kept getting worse. Never the less, it's better the more I move. The hard part is laying on my back or stomach for any period of time. I sometimes require help getting up. The worst thing is getting out of the tanning bed!!! I don't want to get that friendly with anyone, so I just rock my way up. I regularly get epidural steriod injections in my spinal cord and depromedrol (spellling?) shots in my SI joint.
The injury hasn't stopped me yet. But it has made me so aware of how to work with folks with back injuries. It in many ways has been a blessing.
If you've never done walking lunges, add them to your routine today. If you have done them, try one of these two variations:
First, do them walking backward. Careful not to hyperextend the low back.
Second, when walking forward, add what I call a "ballerina lift."
Instead of just picking up your back foot and moving it forward, do a glute squeeze like you would in a step class and the bring that foot forward and get ready for the next one.
Have you ever done 21 guns, for biceps? Do the same thing squats. Full squats for a couple of sets. Then very small ROM just near the top of the squat for a set. Then very small ROM near the bottom of the squat for a set. Then go back to full squat. Hurts so good.
Also, if you have an exercise ball, put your heels only on the ball and do those old-fashioned glute raises we all did in aerobics class a few years back. When you get really good, do it with just one leg at a time on the ball and the other in the air.
I don't exactly know how I broke my vertebra. It is the L5 vertebra and it has both transverse processes broken. The doctor suspects that it was either just from repeated stress of exercising over the years. Or it could have been during childbirth--I had a long labor and then had a C-section. I never knew a specific moment when it happened. It just started with a dull ache that kept getting worse. Never the less, it's better the more I move. The hard part is laying on my back or stomach for any period of time. I sometimes require help getting up. The worst thing is getting out of the tanning bed!!! I don't want to get that friendly with anyone, so I just rock my way up. I regularly get epidural steriod injections in my spinal cord and depromedrol (spellling?) shots in my SI joint.
The injury hasn't stopped me yet. But it has made me so aware of how to work with folks with back injuries. It in many ways has been a blessing.
RE: Kim,
you mean there is no way out of the lunges and squats?
arghhh!!
i do a ton of them:
walking, with weights, without, squatting off a 12 inch step a million times without touching the floor with the free leg... a great plie squat...the old sumo .. etc.... i think my thighs build more doing them than my tush....
what does "21 guns" mean?
I know what it is to live with an injury also .... everything i do is related to a shoulder,neck, arm, hand injury ... too much or too little movement is a real problem... and sitting still is the worst thing to do at all!
I have to move, all the time!
I still would love to know what happened with the body building...did you get where you wanted to get? Its a fantastic goal...no matter what the outcome...I imagine its really about the work getting there, not what happens.
I would love to have expert help with something like that....How did your back do... did the work help, hurt or make no overall difference?
you mean there is no way out of the lunges and squats?
arghhh!!
i do a ton of them:
walking, with weights, without, squatting off a 12 inch step a million times without touching the floor with the free leg... a great plie squat...the old sumo .. etc.... i think my thighs build more doing them than my tush....
what does "21 guns" mean?
I know what it is to live with an injury also .... everything i do is related to a shoulder,neck, arm, hand injury ... too much or too little movement is a real problem... and sitting still is the worst thing to do at all!
I have to move, all the time!
I still would love to know what happened with the body building...did you get where you wanted to get? Its a fantastic goal...no matter what the outcome...I imagine its really about the work getting there, not what happens.
I would love to have expert help with something like that....How did your back do... did the work help, hurt or make no overall difference?
kimroberts
Cathlete
RE: Kim,
21 guns is what Arnold calls a bicep curl with 3 sets of 7 reps. Set 1 is full range of motion, set 2 is very small range of motion just at the top half of the movement, set 3 is a very small range of motion just at the bottom half of the movement. I do the same thing with squats in class and they nearly barf.
My goal in bodybuilding was mainly just to say I did it. (Plus it automatically renewed my personal trainer certificate without going to seminars!) I was a VERY fat kid, then I became an almost aneorexic (sp?) teeneager. Then after I got married, I was up to 203 pounds again. That's when I started exercising, back in the days of leg warmers and Jane Fonda. (I'm old, 40 next year!) No one had ever heard of a step. I absolutely loved aerobics class even though I had never participated in any sport.
Anyway, I placed 5th out of about 18 middleweight females in my first contest. My second contest had about double that many in my category and they only recognized the top 3, so I didn't place in that one.
The dieting is sheer torture for at least 15 weeks pre-contest, longer if you start with more than 18 percent fat or so. Most of the winners have 6,7,or 8 percent fat. I was doing three cardios a day, plus an hour of lifting 6 days a week. One of those cardios was always pre-breakfast. On my so-called rest day, I still had to do the pre-breakfast cardio.
I lived on tuna, grilled chicken, broccoli, lettuce, green beans, cabbage, sweet potatoes, and white rice. I should have eaten eggwhites, but I don't like eggs--I REALLY don't like eggs.
My back injury was improperly diagnosed during this time. I went to a sports medicine doc who comes to our gym. I thought it would be better since he saw a lot of what I did. However, he didn't get an MRI. All he did was give me prescription anti-inflammatories. It was when the contests were over and my left leg started going numb that I thought it was time for a second opinion. The second doc immediately did an MRI. It really isn't as bad as it sounds. The problem is usually it's something little and stupind like tying my shoes that makes it flare up again.
But the whole bodybuilding experience is like having a baby. No matter how bad the weeks of dieting were, the day of the contest makes it worth it all. Since I'm a pastor's wife, and pastor's daughter too, it was not an acceptable thing for me to be seen in a bikini most of my life. Both contests were several hours drive from home. Before you go on stage, my trainers told me to drink half a glass of wine and about 1/4 off a Hershey bar to increase my vascularity. (I don't normally drink, plus I had been eating so clean that 1/2 glass of wine made me really silly.) I posed to Shania Twain "Man, I feel Like a Woman" which I had a musician friend edit down to exactly the 90 second limit. I was out there singing with the tape and having a great time!!! Little did they know why I was having such fun!!!
If you've ever wanted to do it, I encourage you to go for it. But don't expect a lot of help from other women who are still in it. Women are like cats, they want to scratch your eyes out. Way too competitive for me. The guys are all buddies and run around helping each other out. But I'm done with competitive bodybuilding for now. My next fitness endeavor just might be a marathon run in April.
21 guns is what Arnold calls a bicep curl with 3 sets of 7 reps. Set 1 is full range of motion, set 2 is very small range of motion just at the top half of the movement, set 3 is a very small range of motion just at the bottom half of the movement. I do the same thing with squats in class and they nearly barf.
My goal in bodybuilding was mainly just to say I did it. (Plus it automatically renewed my personal trainer certificate without going to seminars!) I was a VERY fat kid, then I became an almost aneorexic (sp?) teeneager. Then after I got married, I was up to 203 pounds again. That's when I started exercising, back in the days of leg warmers and Jane Fonda. (I'm old, 40 next year!) No one had ever heard of a step. I absolutely loved aerobics class even though I had never participated in any sport.
Anyway, I placed 5th out of about 18 middleweight females in my first contest. My second contest had about double that many in my category and they only recognized the top 3, so I didn't place in that one.
The dieting is sheer torture for at least 15 weeks pre-contest, longer if you start with more than 18 percent fat or so. Most of the winners have 6,7,or 8 percent fat. I was doing three cardios a day, plus an hour of lifting 6 days a week. One of those cardios was always pre-breakfast. On my so-called rest day, I still had to do the pre-breakfast cardio.
I lived on tuna, grilled chicken, broccoli, lettuce, green beans, cabbage, sweet potatoes, and white rice. I should have eaten eggwhites, but I don't like eggs--I REALLY don't like eggs.
My back injury was improperly diagnosed during this time. I went to a sports medicine doc who comes to our gym. I thought it would be better since he saw a lot of what I did. However, he didn't get an MRI. All he did was give me prescription anti-inflammatories. It was when the contests were over and my left leg started going numb that I thought it was time for a second opinion. The second doc immediately did an MRI. It really isn't as bad as it sounds. The problem is usually it's something little and stupind like tying my shoes that makes it flare up again.
But the whole bodybuilding experience is like having a baby. No matter how bad the weeks of dieting were, the day of the contest makes it worth it all. Since I'm a pastor's wife, and pastor's daughter too, it was not an acceptable thing for me to be seen in a bikini most of my life. Both contests were several hours drive from home. Before you go on stage, my trainers told me to drink half a glass of wine and about 1/4 off a Hershey bar to increase my vascularity. (I don't normally drink, plus I had been eating so clean that 1/2 glass of wine made me really silly.) I posed to Shania Twain "Man, I feel Like a Woman" which I had a musician friend edit down to exactly the 90 second limit. I was out there singing with the tape and having a great time!!! Little did they know why I was having such fun!!!
If you've ever wanted to do it, I encourage you to go for it. But don't expect a lot of help from other women who are still in it. Women are like cats, they want to scratch your eyes out. Way too competitive for me. The guys are all buddies and run around helping each other out. But I'm done with competitive bodybuilding for now. My next fitness endeavor just might be a marathon run in April.
RE: Kim,
what is vascularity.
your diet... is more than i eat to maintain my weight right now!!!
i dont feel too sorry for you on that!
I was never overweight,but did have my share of eating disorders out of fear.
i have a number of books, one of which is Anja Langer... she competed... was a runner up for ms olympia... have you read her book? I think its one of the best out there for a serious woman builder.
You are old? at 40?
:-rollen
ha!
i am older!
(never mind how old!)
Speak about competetive females! (hmmm..wait a second, who won that one?)
i would love to see a photo from your contest.....
good to have you on the forum...(see i am not that mean!!)
what is vascularity.
your diet... is more than i eat to maintain my weight right now!!!
i dont feel too sorry for you on that!
I was never overweight,but did have my share of eating disorders out of fear.
i have a number of books, one of which is Anja Langer... she competed... was a runner up for ms olympia... have you read her book? I think its one of the best out there for a serious woman builder.
You are old? at 40?
:-rollen
ha!
i am older!
(never mind how old!)
Speak about competetive females! (hmmm..wait a second, who won that one?)
i would love to see a photo from your contest.....
good to have you on the forum...(see i am not that mean!!)
kimroberts
Cathlete
RE: Kim,
Vascularity might not be the proper term. But it made my veins enlarge temporarily so that you look leaner. And the carbs in the candybar sucked the last smidgen of water out of my skin and into my muscles. Did I mention that you intentionally dehydrate yourself for 2 days prior to the show? The odd thing is, we're up there representing what people perceive as extremely healthy people. In reality, we're about to pass out from hot lights, no water and no food. You know you're crazy when you can honestly say that you enjoy that experience. I did!!!1
Wish I could send you a picture, however my computer is still in the dinosaur ages. I don't have a scanner. Hopefully in the next few months we'll upgrade.
I never said you were mean. I happen to like spicy conversation. I say what I feel. At least that way you always know which side of me you are on!!!!!
I'm going to sleep now.. Tah tah
Vascularity might not be the proper term. But it made my veins enlarge temporarily so that you look leaner. And the carbs in the candybar sucked the last smidgen of water out of my skin and into my muscles. Did I mention that you intentionally dehydrate yourself for 2 days prior to the show? The odd thing is, we're up there representing what people perceive as extremely healthy people. In reality, we're about to pass out from hot lights, no water and no food. You know you're crazy when you can honestly say that you enjoy that experience. I did!!!1
Wish I could send you a picture, however my computer is still in the dinosaur ages. I don't have a scanner. Hopefully in the next few months we'll upgrade.
I never said you were mean. I happen to like spicy conversation. I say what I feel. At least that way you always know which side of me you are on!!!!!
I'm going to sleep now.. Tah tah
RE: Kim,
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-01 AT 01:14PM (Est)[/font][p]you could snail mail me a photo and i could scan it and send it to you , then you could post it.
have you talked with Competition Bound...as her name says, she has some ambitions...I wonder if she might love to hear what you have done .
i have performed as a dancer and i know how all that work gets aimed at that one stage performance and what a "high" it is...
Being exposed like that calls for everything you got, a lot of guts, heart and spirit .
work like that is very rewarding..(did you read my bio? i kind of talk about that because it really makes us so much richer to take those challenges)
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-01 AT 01:14PM (Est)[/font][p]you could snail mail me a photo and i could scan it and send it to you , then you could post it.
have you talked with Competition Bound...as her name says, she has some ambitions...I wonder if she might love to hear what you have done .
i have performed as a dancer and i know how all that work gets aimed at that one stage performance and what a "high" it is...
Being exposed like that calls for everything you got, a lot of guts, heart and spirit .
work like that is very rewarding..(did you read my bio? i kind of talk about that because it really makes us so much richer to take those challenges)
kimroberts
Cathlete
RE: Kim,
I don't know how to read bios. How do I get there from here?
By the way, happy birthday, Cinza! I guess you did win this competition after all!!!!!!!
I don't know how to read bios. How do I get there from here?
By the way, happy birthday, Cinza! I guess you did win this competition after all!!!!!!!
RE: Kim,
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-01 AT 04:01PM (Est)[/font][p]right next to my name at the top of my post there is a little head and a little email logo ...click on the head for the bio...
there should be a photo with my bio too... the stuff i wrote on perfoming might be with the photo.
if the photo doesnt show up.. (which it doesnt on any computer i use)
go to
http://hometown.aol.com/cinza/myhomepage/index.html
Yup... i did win out on being older...... hmmm ...i am resisting the urge to feel self conscious like there is something wrong with that
..... I say, lets turn the table on tradition and make my win a reason to celebrate...
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-01 AT 04:01PM (Est)[/font][p]right next to my name at the top of my post there is a little head and a little email logo ...click on the head for the bio...
there should be a photo with my bio too... the stuff i wrote on perfoming might be with the photo.
if the photo doesnt show up.. (which it doesnt on any computer i use)
go to
http://hometown.aol.com/cinza/myhomepage/index.html
Yup... i did win out on being older...... hmmm ...i am resisting the urge to feel self conscious like there is something wrong with that
..... I say, lets turn the table on tradition and make my win a reason to celebrate...