Nutrition ?

getnfit@38

Cathlete
Hi everybody :)

I'm going to post this and try very hard NOT to sound like the stupidest person in the free world!

I want to really begin "fine tuning" my eating and I want to move from simply eating well/watching and regulating my caloric intake to actually planning my meals based on a %fat/%carbs/%protein plan, and I've gathered info, learned the necessary math to figure out the ratios, etc., but here's my question:

I obviously know what fats are, and have a good handle on what foods are proteins, so does that mean that EVERYTHING else that is not a protein or a fat is a carbohydrate?
for instance (here's where I'm wearing the stupid sign!):
fruit?

pudding~clearly my little fat free pudding has to fall somewhere? but it's not a fat (right?), it's not a protein, so is it a carbohydrate?

milk? (protein?)

classifying foods seems to be my most difficult task in this undertaking! any good books on this subject?
Thanks,
Donna
 
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-02 AT 09:15AM (Est)[/font][p]Hi Donna,

Yes, there are the three categories, protein, carb, fat. Usually foods fall neatly into the categories. Do you have the FDA Food Guide? That has some guidelines.

For example, your pudding request. That is a carb. Proteins are beans, lentils, meats, dairy, nuts and seeds. Fats are pretty easy to identify. Everything else is a carb. Fruit, veggies, whole grains, etc.

I've been monitoring my diet for 2 1/2 years now with a computer program, so it makes it easy for me. Over the years, I've tweaked it many many times and learn a whole bunch about what it means to eat healthy. I've narrowed it down to three little rules of thumb that have really done well for me.

They are:

1.) Watch my total calories, 1,800 for me a day. I lose about 2.3 pounds a week at that number. I'm in Karate three nights a week and burn about 1,300 calories a class so I can have my calories higher.
2.) Greater than 25 grams of fiber a day. I usually get 35 - 50 grams. That's how I get a lot of beans, lentils, whole grains, fruits (well, not anymore since I cannot tolerate fruit since my gall bladder's been removed), veggies, nuts and seeds.
3.) Set my percentage of total fat calories per day. Usually it's under 30% is considered a healthy diet. Again, since my gallbladder has been removed, my body cannot breakdown fat or sugars so my fat percentage runs between 15% and 20% a day.

These simple little rules will get you the results that you desire and keep your energy up, plus build muscle and provide you with the cut look.

Just to give you an idea on how these little rules have helped my health, here's my resent blood tests.

Trig: 86
HDL: 67
LDL: 74
Total: 158
Heart Disease Risk Ratio: 2.3

Guidelines -

* Total cholesterol should remain below 200 mg/dl, unless HDL is high.
* LDL should be lower than 130 mg/dl.
* HDL should be 35 mg/dl or higher.
* People under age 30 should shoot for an even lower total cholesterol of 180 mg/dl.
* A ratio of 4.5 carries an average risk, ratios of 5:1 or higher are potentially dangerous, and the ideal ratio is 3.5 or below.

I'm trying not to get into a huge educational session. Because my next topic was going to be about proteins and complete vs. non-complete and how those eating rules safe guard you in this never ending debate, but I don't want to bore you if you're not interested.

Just my experiences.

Keta. :D

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Hi Keta :)

You said in your post that you were using a program to track your eating .. what do you use?? I'm making the same transition right now with regard to really trying to focus on cleaning up my diet, and tweaking it to reflect a nice balance of carbs, protein, and fats, but am really struggling to keep track and monitor it all. Any info you could provide would be fab!!

Thanks!
Nicole
 
R U ready for the long answer?

Hello, Donna!

I take in 1900 calories per day. (Most days-went out for Italian last night so....)

My ratios are 60/15/25 (give or take). From that 1900 calories, I eat 60% from carbohydrate, 15% from protein and 25% from fat.

Carbohydrate and protein each have 4 caloires per gram and fat has 9.
So I take 1900 calories and multiply by .60 to get 1140 calories from carbohydrate which I divide by 4 to get 285 grams of carbohydrate per day.

Then I take 1900 x .15 which = 285 calories from protein and divide by 4 which = 71 grams of protein per day.

Finally, I multiply 1900 by .25 which gives me 475 fat calories which divided by 9 = 52 grams of fat per day.

So, you need to know your daily caloric intake. And you need to decide if you want a high carb/ low fat or high protein/ low carb or high car /low fat diet. I personally do not advocate high protein diets because they are hard on the kidneys and if high fat, hard on the heart. Besides, carbs rule!

Once you've decided, I highly recommend using the calculator at http://www.fitday.com to track every morsel you eat for a month or so and the calculator will show you exactly how it breaks down. Based on that you can adjust you diet to suit you.

I eat lots of fruit and vegetables each day. I eat brown rice and whole wheat pasta, whole grain breads and tortillas, some white rice, and white pasta, oats, rye, you name it to get my carbs. Beans are also a good source, particularly of fiber a component of carbohydrate. Beans are also a great source of protein. I eat chicken, fish, lean red meat, tofu, soy burgers, egg whites for protein. I drink calcium enriched o.j. and soy milk as well as cow's milk, 3 servings a day. Usually, one from each source but not always. I have had wonderful sucess by eating peanut butter or egg whites as a protein source at breakfast with cereal or toast or tortillas for carohydrate. Followed by a vegetable protein for lunch and a animal protein for dinner.

I hope this isn't way more than you wanted to know! It's scary but I love nutrition and think about it endlessly. You can also make plans based on numbers of servings which can work well too.

I loved the book Eat, Drink and BE Healthy, by William Willett. I liked Eating Well for Optimum Health by Andrew Weil and Eat Well, Play Hard by Liz Applegate although she likes sports drinks and bars and I don't care for them.
Good luck! Keep us posted!

Bobbi http://www.plauder-smilies.de/chicken.gif Chicks Rule!
 
No, I looked it up on Web MD. The class is 75 minutes long a shot. On Thursday's it's more intense and we go from 90 - 100 minutes a class. That has a value of 2,039 calories burned. Usually Thursday night class knocks me on my can for two days. I'm exhausted. It's full body contact (no saftey gear and we train on a concrete floor) so it's pretty intense. Since I've started, I've gotten strength gains beyond my wildest dreams and my muscle fibers are tighter and much more dense with not bulking up. I'm really happy with the results.

Keta. :D

Oh, the program . . . [link:mastercook.com/|Mastercook]. I love mine!

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Thank you all for your info/replies :)

Now I'm really feeling "stupid" as my 17 year old (the one I told you with the poor eating habits), informed me, "Duh~Mom, there are only 3 catagories for foods!" Live and learn!

I'll keep you informed and I'm sure I'll return with many questions! :)

Thanks, Donna
 
Milk

Hi, I just read in Self magazine that milk is actually a carb because of the lactose (sugar). That surprised me, but it does have a fair amount of protein.
 
RE: Milk

Milk is neither a protein nor a carb, it's both. This system of putting all foods in three groups is just an abstraction we like to do in our heads to simplify our food choices. It doesn't actually apply to very many foods. There is a little bit of protein in fruit, a little bit of fat in beans, etc. They are not categories, just guidelines. Milk is a good source of protein, but it also has carbs. Beans have protein, but also carbs and a little fat. Too much obsession with details can make us crazy. It's just a way of making some sense out of the wide variety of choices out there.
 
RE: Milk

And considering it doesn't take much to confuse me~this is going to be a bigger challenge than I originally thought!
I noticed just what you were saying mogambo last night. On the bag of potatoes, which clearly I would have considered just a carb, it said, 27g carb, 3g protein! Go figure! This has made me think that I will be spending quite a lot of time in the next few weeks/months label reading a little harder than normal. It was much easier to just check for total calories and fat grams, this is going to be more intricate!

Ya know? I was miserable at 375lbs, but life was so much simpler when I didn't have to analyze my cheesecake! :)

Thanks guys for all the input,
Donna
 
RE: Milk

Hi again,

Every food has those three components in them. Except for pure fats - oils and lard and pure sugar.

To be truly technical, fruits and veggies have protein and fats in them as well. If we were to use the mags rule of milk, then beans, lentils, nuts and seeds would be considered carbs as well. They are higher in carbs and sugars than they are in proteins but they are clearly in the lean meat group. Why? Because of their chemical properties, it’s much more than looking at just their protein, carb, and fat compositions.

There are so many myths and falsehoods out there in our environment. But that confusion is what the "diet" industry preys on the consumer for money. There was one that's out there now about for every gram of fiber you consume, you can subtract 7 calories from your daily caloric intake. It's a myth. It's one way of getting your fiber intake up there, but if you subtract the calories, you won't be as successful in weight management. Again, thriving on the confusion.

That's why it may be better to forgo the classifying foods into one of the food groups and go for more of a simplistic approach.

The reason . . . The more simple that you can make your rules, the less likely you're going to get frustrated and give up. The less likely myths and falsehoods will shake you. Hold strong on the AMA or any credible source for your diet and nutrition needs. Get yourself educated about what these things really mean.

I'll tell you a little secret, food companies are banking on the general consumer's confusion over diet and nutrition and their inability to cook and prepare balanced meals. That with keeping prices low, will the general consumer go out to eat and add to their bottom lines and the general consumers waist lines.

Try not to fall for it. Go to WebMD and do some reading. The biggest thing about diet is that you cannot focus on one or two things in a diet. When that happens then a new piece of information comes available and you don’t have the knowledge base to determine whether it’s valid or not and that causes confusion and frustration. It’s too over whelming to focus on every piece of a healthy diet, that’s why if you focus on the simple rules and understand why they will take care of you, the better that you are at combating myths and falsehoods.

The only reason why I share this is because, been there done that. I’ve been working in this for YEARS! 22 years to be exact, oh, I'm admitting how old I really am. So, I’ve seen a lot. Plus with my own plight, I know how confusing and overwhelming this endeavor can be.

If you want to do the protein, carb, fat thing. Try these rules and don’t get shaken from them, k?

1.) Protein – 15% to 30%, a good ratio is 20% to 25%
2.) Fats – Less than 30% of calories from fat.
3.) Carbs – the rest are carb calories
4.) Do not forget the fiber – I’m telling you this will keep you grounded and away from the junk food, plus the health benefits are amazing.

These are tried and true ratios, start there and then adjust according to your own body responses. Don’t let it get too complicated or you’ll fail before you even hit the ground running. Give it and yourself a chance.

Just my thoughts.

Keta. :D

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RE: Milk

It's true. In fact, I used to worry I wasn't getting enough protein but when I tracked my intake I found there was plenty because it's in most foods in varying degrees. Here's another fact though, vegetable protein is not used as easily by the body. The term is bio-availability. Just as vegetable sources of iron (non heme) are not utilized as well animal sources. Then there are factors like how foods are combined which makes them more or less absorbable. Vitamin C makes the iron in spinach more available but calcium retards it's absorption. he he he! Just eat clean and be happy!

And then there's potaoes which spike blood sugar dramatically. Did you know you can eat them with an acid like vinegar or lemon to decrease that or eat them with beans which help keep the blood sugar levels steady? A baked potato and a salad with oil and vinegar! Yum!

Bobbi http://www.plauder-smilies.de/chicken.gif Chicks Rule!
 
Bobbi!

I did the same thing too. After analyzing the protein in my diet for about six months, I found that I was way too protein heavy. I still have to watch it and cut it back at times. I used to giggle at those claims that the American Diet is too high in protein, it's so true. My diet is about 50/50, 50% Vegetarian and 50% Meatitarian ;). And my protein has to still be watched. I do have to eat beef once a week so I get my B12, but thank goodness B12 sticks in the body for a long time.

It also concerns me when people think they’ve got to get more protein into their daily diets. They’d be shocked if they knew how much protein they were really putting into their bodies. That’s why complex carbs take such a beating. They’ve never gotten their moment in the light for a very very long time. It’s too bad, the antioxidants in them really does a body extremely good!

Hey, I didn’t know about the vinegar tip. I knew of the beans with potatoes, but vinegar, I learned something new today. How awesome!

The iron tip is valid, so when eating spinach choose some sliced tomatoes or fruit juice in combination with it. It does the body good. ;)

Keta. :D

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RE: Bobbi!

I just posted over on the clean eating checkin that I was getting myself very very confused about all this. Good to hear that there's very good reason for it. I'm longing for simplicity tho, to the point that I just want to chuck it all and go back to enjoying life rather than overanalyzing every morsel I put in my mouth.

I'm still not sure where I'll land on all this. I just know I'm not crazy about where I'm at. When did food become so complex? And why isnt it for other people? Bobbi, Keta, you seem to have found peace in this crazy nutrition world. Any tips?

Karen
 
Hi Karen:

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-02 AT 07:45PM (Est)[/font][p]For me it's really simple. I track three things, overall calories, fiber grams and fat calories.

Let me tell you why this seems to work for me. The key is the fiber. If you look at your fiber intake, you'll be shocked that it is so low. In order to get it up there, you have to have to make very good choices, fruits, veggies, beans, lentils, nuts, seeds, barely, quinoa, brown rice, whole grain breads. It's amazing how hard it is to get to that magical number of > 25 grams a day.

It also puts other things into perspective. Fresh fruit instead of juice because the fresh fruit has fiber and the juice doesn't. Triscuit crackers instead of gold fish because of the fiber. Peanut butter instead of pudding, again because of the fiber. Plus, you won't have too much room for meats in your diet, but all the things that are fiber packed are classified as lean meats, beans and lentils, nuts and seeds. Then get your 2 to 3 servings of dairy in there (one of which I'd recommend as yogurt for good intestinal health) and voila, you've got such a clean diet, it isn't even funny.

Another side benefit, foods high in fiber a low in fat. Or they are packed with so much monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats that the average American diet is seriously lacking in. Bingo, you now have all the elements for clean eating and to fuel your body appropriately for exercise. And quite frankly, for a healthy lifestyle that you'll be able to maintain for the rest of your life.

Healthy eating shouldn't be such a chore, but somehow, we've got it in our heads that it is. It's not; we just have been sold that bill of goods. It does require a bit of work in the beginning.

I usually encourage people to make two lists. One list is a list of all the individual foods that they like. Not dishes like pizza or some other type of dish like chili, but like tomatoes or oranges or chili beans. The second list is a list of foods that you'd like to try.

Then look up the fiber grams of the foods that you like. That's an education right there. Then start making choices about your favorite food list. For example: I love corn bread, but I haven't had it in years. Until I did this exercise, now I have corn bread at least once a month. Corn bread is wonder food. Another example: I loved chickpeas but never knew how to use them. So, I would pick one meal a week and do some homework of a recipe that had chickpeas in it with other foods that I liked. Then I'd give it a try. I have chickpeas now at least once a month.

One more thing, pick one food that you'd like to try and try it once a month. You may find that you really like it and just added more variety to your diet.

But notice, it's not meant to be done one morning when you wake up. Keep eating normally and just put one to two meals a week into your diet that's healthy. Then in a couple of weeks, put a couple more in there. Before you know it, you'll be on a clean eating, healthy diet without all the pain, fuss and trouble that we've been taught that it's supposed to be.

Plus, you'll enjoy eating (we've been taught that is a mortal sin, well, it's not), you'll know that you're hitting your nutritional goals and it was easy.

But get this, you won't fail. Do you know why? Because I didn't say that there is a food that is a no no food. As long as you follow your rules, you can have anything you want. So eat a cookie, but remember that fiber and fat calories . . . eat those chips, but remember that fiber and fat calories. It's kind of like a bank account. You only have so much calories, fat calories and you have to hit those fiber grams for a day.

If you need to, apply the 80/20 rule. Eat well 80% of the time and indulge 20% of the time. Again, remember that life is not about being so strict that you kick yourself in the pants because you had a fried fish sandwich. There will be times where you’ll either crave it or just be in a position that that is your food choice and that’s the best choice available. It’s ok. Diet and nutrition are not handcuffs, it’s just learning what is good food and how to use it.

So, choose your three little rules and live well. If you have more than that, you may be driving yourself crazy.

Oh my, this turned into a small book. My apologies. I’ll hush now.

Keta. :D

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It's all about balance....

It's easy to get completely crazy and lose sight of the fact that food is essential to life but it's also for pleasure and comfort! I was getting a little alarmed at the clean eating check in by the people bemoaning the loss of pasta. Whay say good bye to pasta? Even white pasta, which is enriched with some of the nutrients removed by the refining process, can be part of a healty diet if you add the fiber back in somewhere else. It's all about balance. I eat whole grains and fruits and vegetables MOST of the time but I am not eliminating anything and table sugar is quite low on the glycemic index and low in calories if used in moderation.

Keta, do you realize that if you eat a lot of vegetarian sources of protein, that the amount your body uses is less than if you eat a meat heavy diet. As long as you minimize your animal protein intake, a higher protein intake isn't too bad.

I keep an eye on overall calories. I watch my saturated fat intake for the old ticker. I strictly avoid partially hydrogenated fats. I make sure my fiber intake is high and I eat lots of veggies and fruit. I eat salmon once or twice a week. Then chicken alot and shrimp and red meat once or twice a month. I like to indulge when we eat out which isn't frequently enough!I also keep in mind that I can eat whatever I want but I only choose to eat treats occasionally. Oh, and I love nuts! I am trying to be a better bean eater because beans are so nutritious but I am still looking for recipes.



Bobbi http://www.plauder-smilies.de/chicken.gif Chicks Rule!
 
RE: Hi Karen:

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-02 AT 08:00PM (Est)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-02 AT 07:59 PM (Est)[/font]

Thank you. And I mean that sincerely. I hope I didnt sound like I didnt want to do any work at all... I dont mind some of this. Guess I just got to a place where it was confusing and I didnt know which way to go. I really dont mind doing all this nutritional investigative work. But I WOULD like for it to be getting me somewhere. Not to mention, since it does take a bit of effort, I'd like it to not only pay off, but go toward my future. I dont want to have to learn a whole new set of rules to maintain.

Fried fish sandwich? funny you should say that. I had one of our local traditions friday night... a fish fry. That's just part of life around here (wisconsin). While I dont do it often, I do need to figure out how to fit it into a healthy lifestyle. And I think it can be done, just not often!

Thanks Keta, and Bobbi. I feel like this is doable and normal again. Guess I just got too far in, and couldnt see the forest for the trees for a bit there.

Karen
 
RE: It's all about balance....

Excellent point Bobbi!

That's very accurate about the protein. I really like your philosphy on diet. I feel the same way about foods too. Nothing is bad, too much of anything is, too little of anything is, balance is key. Moderation, what a thought, eh?

It sounds like you've been at this awhile too. Is that about right?

Keta. :D

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RE: Hi Karen:

Karen,

I've been there more times that I'd like to admit. But that's what life is all about. Good food, good times, good health, and good education. You're going to do great. Give it a try and let me know if I can help or even share any recipes. I'm a big one for a can of this mixed with a can of that that I can throw in the oven while I go workout.

Just let me know.

Keta. ;)

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