$ 1,200 for health insurance

[sparrow13]

I agree with you cygnus1889. I am American (and a naturalized Brit) with a British husband. I find it baffling when americans oppose government's involvment in people's health situations. The government is already involved. Afterall, americans have sewers, water treatment facilities, clean water, trash collection, fire services, a police force and a wide array of government services that impact the public's health for the better. The US government provides people with a safe highway system, stop signs, road signage, light rails, buses, cycle lanes - you name it, the costs for these items come from taxes. I use the NHS in the UK and also have private insurance to top it up because it only provides a minimal standard in some cases. that's fine. If we move back to the US ever, we wouldn't be insured until employer insurance kicked in because not even one insurer covers ppl who have lived outside the US. Expats constantly have this problem when repatting back to the US.

It grieves me when I read about how much americans have to pay out of pocket for basic care that should be their right. I'll stop right here cause I could go on and on.

A number of the things you mention are administered on a state and local level and are not nationalized systems, per se. And sewage treatments, bike lanes and highways don't involve personal decisions about private matters. The government is not going to provide "free" care without setting up a whole list of draconian regulations and red tape nightmares that will be arrived upon not by considering individual needs and choices but by a convoluted bottom line in which the taxpayer has little or no say. Yes, this happens with insurance companies as well but at least, right now, we have the *choice* as to how to proceed, and that is what is most important to me.

And for those who don't believe it would be a morass of corruption, red tape and special interests, please point to one federally administered department that isn't. I'm always happy to have my mind changed.

I realize I am in the minority, but I'd rather figure things out on my own than be told what to do by the government. As always, just my opinion.

 

[Nadja Z]

The stinkin' insurance is almost $ 15,000 a year, all of those clowns should be forced to live in the real world for a while, maybe that's gonna stop them from making stupid proposals

My mother has been in and out of the hospital all year. At one point she was undergoing surgery to determine whether she'd need a hysterectomy. That'd mean six weeks out of work, not to mention the actual bill. She seriously had to think this over. Of course uterine cancer is going to put a damper on living. But six weeks out of work? How could she possibly survive that? She'd already used up her vacation days on her previous appointments. Her insurance, sick days, etc basically got used up the first day she set foot in the hospital.

I grew up dirt poor. Back to school shopping meant St. Vinnies, and that was on a good year. A close friend of mine grew up in a much better financial situation. House on the water, boat, jet skis, and all the brand new back to school clothes you could want.

So I'm trying to explain this to my friend. His response:
"Well, duh. Obviously she just has to deal with it and take the six weeks off".
"She. can't. afford it. She barely pays the mortgage even with her paychecks."
"Well doesn't she have insurance?"
"Yes..."
"Well there you go. She'll be fine then."

Aggh! As if insurance is this magic ticket that takes care of anything. Well I guess in his case it is since mummy and daddy have always footed the bill. My long drawn out point I guess is when you've never wanted, when you've never had a parent actually worry about feeding you, when you've never actually had to think over "what if..?", you just can't relate. And if you can, there's no explaining it to those who can't.

And by the way, my mother is one of those who did everything right only to get screwed anyway. Master's degree, pays her taxes so other people can go on welfare, etc. For what?

 

[star_dust]

every type of system i cited in the us is administered at the state and local level with some funding coming from the feds. i agree with you. i am not proposing that there be a centralized health system. (also, i think the brits are to blame for american's generalized fear of a stronger central govt.) there are many forms some sort of health insurance policy could take in the us. as i am not a health care policy expert, i wouldn't go so far as to suggest what is possible. i just know that the current system is terrible, overly-expensive and exclusive. in holland, for example, everyone is required to have basic care and you can buy extra if you like. it's a mixture of private/public sponsorship. the uk system isn't draconian or full of red-tape.

in terms of money, having a public health care system in the uk has benefitted the economy substanially in some ways. it allows people actually be entrepreneurial and self-employed much more so than in the us b/c ppl don't have to worry about buying insurance or qualifying for it while their business gets up and running.

you mention choice? i think about 35% of americans have very few health care choices.

all i know is that my daughter has no guarunteed future in the us and could go blind unless i become a millionaire (because that's the only level i would feel comfortable with there) and her vision care isn't actually that bad in terms of costs. as long as she gets regular checks, her vision remains intact. we wouldn't qualify for health insurance because we have lived outside the US and she has a pre-existing condition. that makes me sad that she probably could not live in my home country for that reason.

 

[sparrow13]

every type of system i cited in the us is administered at the state and local level with some funding coming from the feds. i agree with you. i am not proposing that there be a centralized health system. (also, i think the brits are to blame for american's generalized fear of a stronger central govt.) there are many forms some sort of health insurance policy could take in the us. as i am not a health care policy expert, i wouldn't go so far as to suggest what is possible. i just know that the current system is terrible, overly-expensive and exclusive. in holland, for example, everyone is required to have basic care and you can buy extra if you like. it's a mixture of private/public sponsorship. the uk system isn't draconian or full of red-tape.

in terms of money, having a public health care system in the uk has benefitted the economy substanially in some ways. it allows people actually be entrepreneurial and self-employed much more so than in the us b/c ppl don't have to worry about buying insurance or qualifying for it while their business gets up and running.

you mention choice? i think about 35% of americans have very few health care choices.

all i know is that my daughter has no guarunteed future in the us and could go blind unless i become a millionaire (because that's the only level i would feel comfortable with there) and her vision care isn't actually that bad in terms of costs. as long as she gets regular checks, her vision remains intact. we wouldn't qualify for health insurance because we have lived outside the US and she has a pre-existing condition. that makes me sad that she probably could not live in my home country for that reason.

I'm not a policy person either and while I have many opinions I have few ideas. I said in another thread on this a few months ago that I think it's going to take a program made up of ideas from several different - including the gov - to make a program that will work, so we are probably thinking along the same lines in the end. I just don't want a FEDERAL program.

Anyway I am sorry your daughter and your family are going through this. <<Star Dust>> My mother is going blind and is scared to death, as she is only in her early sixties. She has shots once a month that are holding it at bay for the time being but they are extremely expensive, and her insurance has not covered them so far.

 

[kathryn]

Ouch!

That's criminal. Or at least it should be.

We are certainly NOT the world leaders in health care. Many other countries have free or low-cost basic care for everyone (but when that is brought up here, the specter of 'socialsm" is brought up...encouraged by the profiteering pharmaceutcal and health-care system).

 

[hiitdogs]

The government is not going to provide "free" care without setting up a whole list of draconian regulations and red tape nightmares that will be arrived upon not by considering individual needs and choices but by a convoluted bottom line in which the taxpayer has little or no say. Yes, this happens with insurance companies as well but at least, right now, we have the *choice* as to how to proceed, and that is what is most important to me..

Not only does it happen with insurance companies that they always "interpret" their already draconian regulations to their benefit, there really is no recourse. Yeah, this is America, you can sue them but by the time it goes through the court system the often cited waiting periods for "socialized" health care look pretty darn good.

I am not for "socialized" health care and I want the government involved in as little as possible, heck, between the Social Security Admininstration and the INS, they can't even change my son's name to his legal name UGGHHH! However, I think the current health care system is a disgrace.

I don't think health insurance should be run by the government but it should be regulated as to what they can charge for health insurance. There are some things that are basic rights and health care is one of them.

I am all for capitalism, profits, etc. but not when it comes to providing health care for people! If you consider that 20 to 30 % of health care dollars are sunk into excessive administrative costs, lobbying, marketing, CEO salaries and profit-taking - $1.4 billion stock options to former UnitedHealth CEO William McGuire; $30 billion annual after-tax health insurance profits, plus $32 billion insurance underwriting and marketing costs (Source: McKinsey Group Report 2007).
The pharmaceutical industry is the other 800 pound gorilla in the room, I am not even going there.

In my opinion profit and health just don't go together when it comes to health care. Imagine for-profit fire or police protection. In order to increase their profits, insurance companies are cherry picking by covering the healthy (obviously with a ridiculous premium as we can see in my example) and rejecting everyone else as a “pre-existing condition.” “Market-driven” health care treats health as a commodity, to be negotiated like a car or a house. Contrary to their whining and moaning, profits of health insurances are almost obscene.

What gets me even more though, like another poster mentioned the bill for the doctor is $ 1,000 per day and they ended up getting the usuary and customary fee of $ 200, that's what the insurance pays. If you are not insured you ARE billed the $ 1,000 and you have to pay it. So the ones that cannot afford insurance in the first place get a doublewhammy.

Obviously I am looking for other insurance carriers to find decent health care. We really can't afford $ 1,200 a month in health insurance, plus all the deductibles, especially with my commissions being the only family income right now. On the other hand, I really don't want to pay for lousy insurance or an HMO.

I never cared much for the American health care system but right now I am about fed up!

 

[cocob1]

good topic

I'm not very good at expressing myself so please forgive me but this topic is huge. Lack of affordable insurance has impacted my family.
Both DH and I are self employed and I have a preexisting condition. We only have major medical with a huge deductible for DH and our 11 year old DS. My insurance is through our states High Risk pool. We pay $8,400.00 a year not counting deductibles and I'm the only one with full coverage. It stinks. I'd love new paint, to replace the 40 year old drapes in the old house we bought 5 years ago with the intent to fix up, buy a dishwasher but we don't dare. My husbands job is tied into the housing market and we were hit hard starting 3 years ago. Our savings are gone. I could work full time and I tried that this past winter. Just when the new insurance was to kick in after the probation period was almost over, I was told at my OBGYN appointment I had precancerous cells that were multiplying rapidly and I needed surgery ASAP. Another preexisting condition that would throw me out of the new insurance. It was a double stink. I was only working for the insurance. The money averaged out to $10.00 per hour. Our son suffered. His grades went down. It isn't fair to him not having someone at home to be there for him and school today expects, demands, parents to be a part of the homework process in the elementary grades plus I've seen too many latch key kids get in trouble form lack of adult supervision and the cost of child care ate up what I was earning.

My other observation is economic. I agree with the previous post (I'm out of time to go back and check who said it) that the present system is holding US citizens back from areas of employment that might bring greater satisfaction, creativity and mobility because of the fear of loss of insurance.

I think US companies that do provide insurance are competing at a disadvantage against other nations. Business of a certain size are expected to provide medical insurance so the costs are absorbed by the company and is factored into their operating costs and profit margins. For example my sister works for Boeing and Boeing's major completion is Air Bus. Air Bus doesn't have to pay insurance for their employees. The same is true with Japanese car companies. Japan has a different system. Detroit can't win for trying.

No wonder American companies are outsourcing as many jobs as they can and forcing many positions into an "independent contractor" category. The American way of financing insurance from employers doesn't work anymore with the global economy. US companies are outsourcing as much as they can to stay competitive.

We are a soon becoming a third world country based on the health of our citizens.

Whew.

I don't think any thing will change anytime soon. Big profits do not belong in health care.

Colleen

 

[pink_fortitude]

i think the brits are to blame for american's generalized fear of a stronger central govt.

Why do you think that?

I must admit that I love threads on health care like these because there is such an incredible exchange of smart ideas, opinions and thoughts by everyone. I especially love to hear input from those who lived/are living in other countries and how their system works. I do completely believe that our system is broken and totally messed up, but I am not really sure that socialized medicine is the cure since there isn't much that our government can/has done right. Greed of power and money in politics are too much of a factor for me to want to fork over more taxes (especially when we are barely making ends meet as it is). Then when you factor in how bad our eating habits are what chemicals and other things companies are allowed to be put in "food" - if we went socialized we would have to make a lot of changes and restrictions as to what can be added or every penny ever earned would be going to try to reverse years of eating damage for a nation of over 300 million. I would be all for preventative health care, though, especially for children since they have absolutely no say in any aspect of their life and rely on others to care for them.

This is always an interesting topic!

Missy

 

[star_dust]

oh - i just meant that a fear of a strong centralized govt goes back to the colonial pre-revolutionary war days i just like to poke fun at brit-american relations that's all.

 

[pink_fortitude]

oh! lol You know what, though, even if it was a joke I think you hit the nail on the head w/ that one! ;]

Missy

 

[mabdoo]

One other thing...

Our daughter also had to have shots to prevent her from getting RSV, a respiratory virus. The shot cost $2200 per month, yes PER MONTH, and she had the shot for 5 months. Insurance covered a very small portion of it. What was the shot made of? It was more expensive than gold!

So yes insurance is outrageous but so is the cost of medical care. That is expensive because of malpractice insurance and we know why that is so high. It is a never ending cycle.

 

[sparrow13]

One other thing...

Our daughter also had to have shots to prevent her from getting RSV, a respiratory virus. The shot cost $2200 per month, yes PER MONTH, and she had the shot for 5 months. Insurance covered a very small portion of it. What was the shot made of? It was more expensive than gold!

So yes insurance is outrageous but so is the cost of medical care. That is expensive because of malpractice insurance and we know why that is so high. It is a never ending cycle.

ITA! I'd be curious to know, from the European crowd, what the malpractice situation is like in their countries. If national health care prevents unnecessary lawsuits, that would certainly be a mark in its "favorable" column.

 

[My2girls]

So yes insurance is outrageous but so is the cost of medical care. That is expensive because of malpractice insurance and we know why that is so high. It is a never ending cycle.

I also agree with this statement.

My DH has diabetes and takes really good care of himself. He is still young and in good physical shape. Yet, we would have to pay over $700 just to insure him (no insurance will take him, but he could get in a high risk pool program) with very high deductibles. We simply cannot afford it. What we find sad is that a young and healthy person is charged high rates b/c of the mass of people that do NOT take good care of their bodies and health and therefore need a lot of expensive medical care and meds.

We have found an alternative to at least cover a major medical expense, should it arise. We belong to a shared medical expense program for like-minded people. We send other people money each month to cover their medical needs and if we have a need we would receive money from others. In this program you are encouraged to discuss your medical bills with your providers to reduce them as much as possible.

There just isn't a clear or quick answer to all the problems the medical industry has.

 

[hiitdogs]

ITA! I'd be curious to know, from the European crowd, what the malpractice situation is like in their countries. If national health care prevents unnecessary lawsuits, that would certainly be a mark in its "favorable" column.

I am mostly familiar with the German legal system but I think most European countries are pretty similar. Whereas there are obviously civil lawsuits, medical malpractice lawsuits in Germany are handled differently than here. Initially, if there is a complaint it will be referred to the review board of the Medical Association. In Germany you can only get actual damages and a moderate amount for pain and suffering, punitive damages are never awarded. But the same is true for other law suits i.e tabacco industry, car accidents, etc. You will never get those outrageous amounts as in the US as they are reported on TV.

That being said, medical malpractice lawsuits are NOT what drives up health care cost. In fact, numerous independent studies have been done on this very subject and medical malpractice payouts account for 0.55 % to 1 % (depending on the study) of the total health care cost.

If you look at examples like California, it has the most draconian limits on the rights of patients in medical malpractice, there is a cap of $ 250,000 on non-economic damages. Despite of that the average premium for malpractice insurance is $ 35,000 (obviously higher for high-risk medical fields like OB/GYN, neurosurgeons, etc), more than 8 % higher than in states with no cap. In fact, insurance premiums for doctors increased by 190 % over the 12-year period following the cap implementation and health care cost increased by 343 %. Hmmmh, interesting!

I think this is a very sue-happy society and there are lawsuits that make me cringe. However, when you look at how many frivilous law suits actually move forward, it is a miniscule amount but of course those law suits get dragged into the media and tort reform proponents have a hayday with it.

A large part (20 to 30 %) of the health care cost is administrative cost, lobbying, marketing, CEO compensation, etc. it is NOT the cost of malpractice lawsuits. But it sure gets people riled up and pointing fingers at phony lawsuits, whereas the problems lay somewhere else.

HTH

 

[sparrow13]

I am mostly familiar with the German legal system but I think most European countries are pretty similar. Whereas there are obviously civil lawsuits, medical malpractice lawsuits in Germany are handled differently than here. Initially, if there is a complaint it will be referred to the review board of the Medical Association. In Germany you can only get actual damages and a moderate amount for pain and suffering, punitive damages are never awarded. But the same is true for other law suits i.e tabacco industry, car accidents, etc. You will never get those outrageous amounts as in the US as they are reported on TV.

That being said, medical malpractice lawsuits are NOT what drives up health care cost. In fact, numerous independent studies have been done on this very subject and medical malpractice payouts account for 0.55 % to 1 % (depending on the study) of the total health care cost.

If you look at examples like California, it has the most draconian limits on the rights of patients in medical malpractice, there is a cap of $ 250,000 on non-economic damages. Despite of that the average premium for malpractice insurance is $ 35,000 (obviously higher for high-risk medical fields like OB/GYN, neurosurgeons, etc), more than 8 % higher than in states with no cap. In fact, insurance premiums for doctors increased by 190 % over the 12-year period following the cap implementation and health care cost increased by 343 %. Hmmmh, interesting!

I think this is a very sue-happy society and there are lawsuits that make me cringe. However, when you look at how many frivilous law suits actually move forward, it is a miniscule amount but of course those law suits get dragged into the media and tort reform proponents have a hayday with it.

A large part (20 to 30 %) of the health care cost is administrative cost, lobbying, marketing, CEO compensation, etc. it is NOT the cost of malpractice lawsuits. But it sure gets people riled up and pointing fingers at phony lawsuits, whereas the problems lay somewhere else.

HTH

Interesting!! Thanks for the info!

 

[kathryn]

We have found an alternative to at least cover a major medical expense, should it arise. We belong to a shared medical expense program for like-minded people. We send other people money each month to cover their medical needs and if we have a need we would receive money from others. In this program you are encouraged to discuss your medical bills with your providers to reduce them as much as possible.

I love that!
It really calls upon the spirit of community and helping others.

 

[carolyn122162]

I feel your pain Carola. I pay $500.00 just for myself with BCBS and I have a high deductible. They contunue to raise my rates every 6 months or so and there isn't a thing I can do about it. I was diagnoised with cancer almost 8 years ago . I have checked around for new coverage and not a single company will touch me until 2010. I have to be cancer free for 10 years. My DH is self employed so there is no group coverage that I could even get. Between my DH, kids (who have their own seperate policy) and myself we are close to $1200.oo a month as well.

 

[wlorrie]

AFter eading these post, I realize I must be very fortunate. I'm employed, and my employer pays for most of health coverage. I end up paying only about $22/ week for medical, dental, and vision insurance.However, If I were to become unemployed , there is no way I could afford health insurance.

Many self employed people I know have hospital indemnity plans. It's not insurance, but can save you a lot of money of you have to be hospitalized or have to see a doctor. One plan a friend has is about $350/ month for the family.
Lorrie

 

[cocob1]

not alone

Upon reviewing this thread, it's sad to say I'm glad to hear I'm not alone with my families high health costs. So many of us carry the burden alone.
I was reading a poll on health care here in Minnesota and a high percentage of people without coverage are working,;above the level for subsidized state health care income wise and American citizens. That wasn't what the poll takers expected. They thought it would be populated with welfare recipients and recent or illegal immigrants. A large number of these working families had no insurance or just major medical and no help with preventative care.
America is smart. We can come up with a better system that works for everyone.
Anyway eating smart and working out with Cathe is part of my preventive care but I couldnt' have gotten here with out my Enbrel. ($1,400.00 a month biologic)
Colleen