Liann
Cathlete
I think she is referring to the children. That sounds about the number they were saying of children who have died so far from it in the US.
So will you get the shot?
- Thread starter Liann
- Start date
I think she is referring to the children. That sounds about the number they were saying of children who have died so far from it in the US.
elliemom
Cathlete
I can't believe I am even responding to this but I feel like I have to.
First of all the swine flu vaccine is made EXACTLY the same way as the season flu vaccine. Does anyone know how we get the seasonal flu???
We go to the Southern hemisphere and take those stains and give them to people in the Northern Hemisphere. This is because the INFLUENZA virus does not spread because we are all cooped up together in the winter, it LIKES and THRIVES in cold weather. That is why our flu season is typically November thru March.
That is one BIG reason why the swine flu is so scary. We were having outbreaks in June July and August in the US. It's NOT flu season. So this is a very virulent strain.
Secondly, pharmaceutical companies DO NOT make money on flu vaccine of any kind. They actually lose money. Yes they make tons on other drugs but there is no financial incentive for them to make flu vaccine. A good amount of it is given away free and most years they end with thousands + unused doses that need to be discarded.
Thirdly, I find it really hard to believe that the WHO or CDC has any hidden agenda in trying to EDUCATE the public about a possible pandemic. Are they doing that to SCARE us. For what reason???? What possible good could come from that??? Won't they just look like idiots if they are soooo wrong? Won't they lose all public trust??
Finally, the seasonal flu vaccine is a DEAD virus. it is pretty darn hard to get sick from a dead virus. Your body goes into defense mode and you may get an immunity reaction, but you don't get the flu. Our kids get Polio vaccine and don't get Polio. They get Hepatitis B vaccine and don't get Hepatitis. We healthcare workers have gotten all of these vaccines and have never gotten Hepatitis etc. Those people making smallpox vaccine get the vaccine and do not get Smallpox.
Please try your best to truly educate yourselves about why this Possible pandemic is so deadly. And yes, 76 HEALTHY children dead long before flu season starts is something to be VERY CONCERNED about.
First of all the swine flu vaccine is made EXACTLY the same way as the season flu vaccine. Does anyone know how we get the seasonal flu???
We go to the Southern hemisphere and take those stains and give them to people in the Northern Hemisphere. This is because the INFLUENZA virus does not spread because we are all cooped up together in the winter, it LIKES and THRIVES in cold weather. That is why our flu season is typically November thru March.
That is one BIG reason why the swine flu is so scary. We were having outbreaks in June July and August in the US. It's NOT flu season. So this is a very virulent strain.
Secondly, pharmaceutical companies DO NOT make money on flu vaccine of any kind. They actually lose money. Yes they make tons on other drugs but there is no financial incentive for them to make flu vaccine. A good amount of it is given away free and most years they end with thousands + unused doses that need to be discarded.
Thirdly, I find it really hard to believe that the WHO or CDC has any hidden agenda in trying to EDUCATE the public about a possible pandemic. Are they doing that to SCARE us. For what reason???? What possible good could come from that??? Won't they just look like idiots if they are soooo wrong? Won't they lose all public trust??
Finally, the seasonal flu vaccine is a DEAD virus. it is pretty darn hard to get sick from a dead virus. Your body goes into defense mode and you may get an immunity reaction, but you don't get the flu. Our kids get Polio vaccine and don't get Polio. They get Hepatitis B vaccine and don't get Hepatitis. We healthcare workers have gotten all of these vaccines and have never gotten Hepatitis etc. Those people making smallpox vaccine get the vaccine and do not get Smallpox.
Please try your best to truly educate yourselves about why this Possible pandemic is so deadly. And yes, 76 HEALTHY children dead long before flu season starts is something to be VERY CONCERNED about.
Thanks for your comment, Ellie. There is quite a bit of fear mongering going on about this vaccine. It makes me wonder what responsibility people are going to take when they scare people out of getting the vaccine and people die as a result. I haven't seen one piece of credible evidence that the h1n1 vaccine is dangerous. Just a lot of speculation as far as I can see.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
The only pandemic that is ongoing in this country is the pandemic of disease mongering.
Buffy, you are the one who is speculating - that the vaccine is not dangerous and in fact "healthy". I don't speculate on anything. I want proof that it doesn't cause any harm.
Ellie, the problem with this vaccine or any other vaccine is not the "dead strain" that is in there (although there had been a problem with the tissue that a polio vaccine previously which turned out to cause cancer due to the on the tissue it was grown on) , the problem is the additives that don't even get disclosed. Vaccines can (and do) contain formaldehyde, squalene, mercury (thimerosal), I am not sure where you get that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make any money on flu vaccines. I used to work for the pharmaceutical industry and flu vaccines are a huge money maker. They are being paid ahead of time with tax payer money.
Why would the CDC or FDA try to scare us? Well, for one I do believe that most of them also believe what is being told but it is also a sad fact of live that many of the CDC and FDA officials after they leave office get high paying (consultant) jobs with the drug companies. I would say that money is a pretty good motivator for many people, including government officials. Maybe this video gives you a little bit of an insight of the symbiotic relationships between the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, lobbyists, lawmakers, medical schools, and researchers, and the impact this has on consumers and their health care. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2502546838698762400
BuffyR, I think you keep misreading what I am saying. I said that we don't know anything about the LONG-term effects of the vaccine. Of course there is no evidence of H1N1 vaccines being dangerous - because it has not been tested yet. I don't care much about the short-term effects, it is rare that people just drop dead. I am much more worried about long term effects of vaccines of drugs.
Even with smoking - which I think we all agree is harmful - if a healthy and active person smokes one cigarette there probably won't be any immediate health impact. Even if they smoke over months there wouldn't be any clear-cut, directly related problems arose. There probably would be underlying health issues but may not appear to be symptoms of smoking. Going by the logic that we are being told with that vaccine (and other vaccines and drugs) we would have to conclude that smoking is not unhealthy and has not direct impact on our health. I would say that smoking is harmful just the short term effects are not always noticable over the long term there are serious and noticable problems. For everyone? No! Of course not! That's my concern with untested vaccines and drugs.
I was referring to the children that have died so far since it is touted as a disease that effects children. And yes, you are right WORLDWIDE there have been 4,500 deaths, sounds like a real pandemic to me
Do you know how many people die of car accidents in the US alone? How many people die in the US of doctor prescribed drugs? These numbers are FAR higher but it doesn't seem to me that anyone is losing any sleep over this.
I am not anti-vaccination or anti-drugs, but I want to know what I shove down my kids throat or what's in the needle that pokes them. My kids won't be guinea pigs. If you don't that's fine but don't tell me that I need to educate myself because that's exactly what I am doing.
By the way, Robert F. Kennedy jr's Deadly Immunity is an interesting read. http://www.southerncrossreview.org/41/kennedy.htm
I also find it interesting that Baxter filed for a swine flu patent in August 2008, a full year before the swine flu outbreak.
Buffy, you are the one who is speculating - that the vaccine is not dangerous and in fact "healthy". I don't speculate on anything. I want proof that it doesn't cause any harm.
Ellie, the problem with this vaccine or any other vaccine is not the "dead strain" that is in there (although there had been a problem with the tissue that a polio vaccine previously which turned out to cause cancer due to the on the tissue it was grown on) , the problem is the additives that don't even get disclosed. Vaccines can (and do) contain formaldehyde, squalene, mercury (thimerosal), I am not sure where you get that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make any money on flu vaccines. I used to work for the pharmaceutical industry and flu vaccines are a huge money maker. They are being paid ahead of time with tax payer money.
Why would the CDC or FDA try to scare us? Well, for one I do believe that most of them also believe what is being told but it is also a sad fact of live that many of the CDC and FDA officials after they leave office get high paying (consultant) jobs with the drug companies. I would say that money is a pretty good motivator for many people, including government officials. Maybe this video gives you a little bit of an insight of the symbiotic relationships between the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, lobbyists, lawmakers, medical schools, and researchers, and the impact this has on consumers and their health care. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2502546838698762400
BuffyR, I think you keep misreading what I am saying. I said that we don't know anything about the LONG-term effects of the vaccine. Of course there is no evidence of H1N1 vaccines being dangerous - because it has not been tested yet. I don't care much about the short-term effects, it is rare that people just drop dead. I am much more worried about long term effects of vaccines of drugs.
Even with smoking - which I think we all agree is harmful - if a healthy and active person smokes one cigarette there probably won't be any immediate health impact. Even if they smoke over months there wouldn't be any clear-cut, directly related problems arose. There probably would be underlying health issues but may not appear to be symptoms of smoking. Going by the logic that we are being told with that vaccine (and other vaccines and drugs) we would have to conclude that smoking is not unhealthy and has not direct impact on our health. I would say that smoking is harmful just the short term effects are not always noticable over the long term there are serious and noticable problems. For everyone? No! Of course not! That's my concern with untested vaccines and drugs.
I was referring to the children that have died so far since it is touted as a disease that effects children. And yes, you are right WORLDWIDE there have been 4,500 deaths, sounds like a real pandemic to me
Do you know how many people die of car accidents in the US alone? How many people die in the US of doctor prescribed drugs? These numbers are FAR higher but it doesn't seem to me that anyone is losing any sleep over this.I am not anti-vaccination or anti-drugs, but I want to know what I shove down my kids throat or what's in the needle that pokes them. My kids won't be guinea pigs. If you don't that's fine but don't tell me that I need to educate myself because that's exactly what I am doing.
By the way, Robert F. Kennedy jr's Deadly Immunity is an interesting read. http://www.southerncrossreview.org/41/kennedy.htm
I also find it interesting that Baxter filed for a swine flu patent in August 2008, a full year before the swine flu outbreak.
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The only pandemic that is ongoing in this country is the pandemic of disease mongering.
Ellie, the problem with this vaccine or any other vaccine is not the "dead strain" that is in there (although there had been a problem with the tissue that a polio vaccine previously which turned out to cause cancer due to the on the tissue it was grown on) , the problem is the additives that don't even get disclosed. Vaccines can (and do) contain formaldehyde, squalene, mercury (thimerosal), I am not sure where you get that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't make any money on flu vaccines. I used to work for the pharmaceutical industry and flu vaccines are a huge money maker. They are being paid ahead of time with tax payer money.
Why would the CDC or FDA try to scare us? Well, for one I do believe that most of them also believe what is being told but it is also a sad fact of live that many of the CDC and FDA officials after they leave office get high paying (consultant) jobs with the drug companies. I would say that money is a pretty good motivator for many people, including government officials. Maybe this video gives you a little bit of an insight of the symbiotic relationships between the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, lobbyists, lawmakers, medical schools, and researchers, and the impact this has on consumers and their health care. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2502546838698762400
BuffyR, I think you keep misreading what I am saying. I said that we don't know anything about the LONG-term effects of the vaccine. Of course there is no evidence of H1N1 vaccines being dangerous - because it has not been tested yet. I don't care much about the short-term effects, it is rare that people just drop dead. I am much more worried about long term effects of vaccines of drugs.
Even with smoking - which I think we all agree is harmful - if a healthy and active person smokes one cigarette there probably won't be any immediate health impact. Even if they smoke over months there wouldn't be any clear-cut, directly related problems arose. There probably would be underlying health issues but may not appear to be symptoms of smoking. Going by the logic that we are being told with that vaccine (and other vaccines and drugs) we would have to conclude that smoking is not unhealthy and has not direct impact on our health. I would say that smoking is harmful just the short term effects are not always noticable over the long term there are serious and noticable problems. For everyone? No! Of course not! That's my concern with untested vaccines and drugs.
I was referring to the children that have died so far since it is touted as a disease that effects children. And yes, you are right WORLDWIDE there have been 4,500 deaths, sounds like a real pandemic to me
I am not anti-vaccination or anti-drugs, but I want to know what I shove down my kids throat or what's in the needle that pokes them. My kids won't be guinea pigs. If you don't that's fine but don't tell me that I need to educate myself because that's exactly what I am doing.
By the way, Robert F. Kennedy jr's Deadly Immunity is an interesting read. http://www.southerncrossreview.org/41/kennedy.htm
I also find it interesting that Baxter filed for a swine flu patent in August 2008, a full year before the swine flu outbreak.
Not sure why you thought my comment about no evidence that the h1n1 vaccine was directed to you, but, I really had people like Glenn Beck in mind who scare the crap out of alot of uninformed folks. I think everyone should educate themselves and make decisions based on solid information, not scare tactics.
Also, and this comment is directed at you, the test of whether a virus is a pandemic is not how many people die but rather how widespread the virus is. I would agree that the current strain of this virus is not especially severe, but that is exactly the way the 1918 pandemic began. Flu strains tend to mutate to survive. That is the biggest fear.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I don't know what makes you think that every one who watches Glenn Beck is uninformed. I don't like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and the likes and I am pretty left-leaning but that doesn't necessarily mean that people who watch or listen to them are uninformed.
I hate to say that but you just made the best argument AGAINST the vaccine - flu strains mutate, if they mutate the flu vaccine is completely and utterly USELESS. A useless vaccine for a lot of money that does not protect with unknown long-term side effects? Supporting something like that does not sound prudent to me. Well, it's great for the drug companies because they win, no matter what.
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Carola,
If you don't want the vaccine, don't get it. It's that simple. No one is forcing it on you.
And, I never said everyone who watches Glenn Beck is uninformed, but, Glenn is definitely mentally unbalanced and so people who take his word as the gospel do so at their own peril.
GMonkey
Cathlete
Thank you elliemom for being a voice of reason.
You are right, pharma companies lose money on vaccines.
Also, don't any of you realize that alt-med, and homeopathy proponents may also have an agenda?
I had my seasonal flu shot, and I'm waiting for H1N1 vaccine to become available intramuscular rather than nasal application before I get it. I do clinicals 2X/week at the VA Medical Center and I can't miss more than 2 days per semester without having to withdraw from my program and begin again next year. I'm not about to wear a face mask all winter long.
You are right, pharma companies lose money on vaccines.
Also, don't any of you realize that alt-med, and homeopathy proponents may also have an agenda?
I had my seasonal flu shot, and I'm waiting for H1N1 vaccine to become available intramuscular rather than nasal application before I get it. I do clinicals 2X/week at the VA Medical Center and I can't miss more than 2 days per semester without having to withdraw from my program and begin again next year. I'm not about to wear a face mask all winter long.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Uumh, yeah, so what would be my agenda?
I am just curious how you think pharma companies lose money on vaccines? They have been paid by the US government alone $ 750 Mio. not to mention the subsidies and stand to make $ 7 billion on the H1N1 vaccine worldwide. Doesn't sound like losing money to me. If they were losing money on it, they wouldn't do it, Wall Street investors would make sure of that.
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hiitdogs
Cathlete
Although I am pretty left leaning I don't find Ed Schultz or Keith Olberman much more balanced.
Uhm, I said Glenn Beck is mentally unbalanced.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I am not an idiot, Buffy. I find Ed Schultz and Keith Olberman MENTALLY unbalanced at times.
Then don't listen.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I guess you are not understanding my point! It doesn't make the people who listen to them uninformed. I don't believe in much that Glenn Beck spreads but by the same token Keith Olberman and Ed Schultz are just as (mentally) unbalanced. Just because a moderator is mentally unbalanced doesn't make those who listen uninformed. And just because someone views the world, politics or health differently than I do does not make them uninformed and me superior.
But I refuse to be treated like an idiot because I don't blindly follow what the medical community touts and ask for proof of the safety of the product they are trying to push. I guess that's a really sinister hidden agenda I have there
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I guess you are not understanding my point! It doesn't make the people who listen to them uninformed. I don't believe in much that Glenn Beck spreads but by the same token Keith Olberman and Ed Schultz are just as (mentally) unbalanced. Just because a moderator is mentally unbalanced doesn't make those who listen uninformed. And just because someone views the world, politics or health differently than I do does not make them uninformed and me superior.
But I refuse to be treated like an idiot because I don't blindly follow what the medical community touts and ask for proof of the safety of their product. I guess that's a really sinister hidden agenda I have there
I am not treating you like an idiot. You seem to think that if anyone doesn't agree with you that they are idiots. I have consistently said that people should inform themselves and make up their own minds.
I will say again, I did not say that everyone who follows Glenn Beck is an idiot but I will say that from what I've seen of his teabagging followers, many of them don't bother to inform themselves about whether Glenn's opinons have any basis in fact.
hiitdogs
Cathlete
Where did I say that people who disagree with me are idiots? As far as I recall you labled the ones that listen to people who you don't agree with as "uninformed". You said the vaccine is safe, I said I haven't seen any proof that it is. I have explained why I won't get the shot and why I don't want my kids to get it.
I guess I can't state my opinion and concerns without being labeled as a fear mongerer and having a hidden agenda.
I'm getting the distinct impression that you are one of those people who like to argue for the sake of arguing as you clearly misconstrue every comment I make. I will therefore not be responding to any of your future comments.
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DDRdiva
Cathlete
Great post, elliemom!
hiitdogs
Cathlete
I guess a good offense is always the best defense, eh? If you don't have any response on the merrits there is always personal attacks, questioning someone's knowledge and motives. I have not misconstrued anything and I don't argue for the sake of argueing. I state my opinion in the hopes that people will do their own research instead of just taking everything at face value that is being fed by the media, medical community, food and drug manufacturers and the government. Nor do I expect anyone to believe anything I say but I hope that it starts a thinking process and it is okay if they come to a different conclusion than I do.
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