Not judging, just curious

elliemom

elliemom

Cathlete
Why is everyone so upset that gays want to be legally married??? Why is it okay for Tom Beatie (still technically a woman since he can give birth) to get married to a woman, but not okay for others???
What do you have to do ... take a crap load of hormones and PRETEND to be the other sex to make it okay????

I am happily married to a man, so this does not really affect me, but what's the big deal?? Why can't gays marry whoever the heck they want?? We all do it. Can we say, NO you can't marry that man who is 20 years older or who may leave you for a younger woman? Do we prohibit marriage for alcoholics, or drug addicts, or sex fiends. I don't neccessarily agree with their life style but who am I to say???

Not all heterosexuals marriage work out and kids get caught in the middle and long divorce and custody issues. What makes that any more right or wrong for a gay couple???

Just really curious
elliemom
 
Thank you elliemom!
I agree with you 150% about gay marriage!

The most common argument I've heard against it is that it affects the "sanctity" of marriage.
I have yet to have someone explain to me how exactly two men or two women who love each other has any impact on the sanctity of the marriage that my husband and I share.
Do we love each other a little less now? Is our bond a little weaker in some way?

I also have yet to hear a plausible argument against gay marriage that does NOT involve the Bible. And, I'm sorry, but anyone that starts quoting the Bible to me on the topic of equal rights, I automatically dismiss them. Somehow, this topic always seems to be a competition of whose imaginary friend is more important.

I've recently read two ideas on resolving this topic that I think are simply brilliant!
1. Eliminate the term "marriage" all together. The word is what seems to work most people up. And there is clearly confusion and strong opinions regarding mixing a religious act, and a legal act.

2. Establish a "religion" (pick a random diety here), that celebrates gay marriage. We can establish a church around it, and that church celebrates and performs gay marriages. That way, it's protected by freedom of religion, and we can all stop arguing!

I'm sure this thread will get a lot of responses. Hopefully it's civil, since this is one area that people get very emotional about.
 
I think most of the objections are rooted in religion. The Mormons spent something like $20 mil to make sure Prop 8 passed.

But I agree w/you--there's so much hatred in this world, why be against 2 people loving each other, regardless of their gender? :mad:
 
Ellie,

I totally agree with you.

In my country it is even worse. There is so much ignorance that causes homosexual couples to be persecuted.

Vrinda
 
I support gay marriage and have trouble understanding why anyone else would bother to care.

I have heard the argument that some religious institutions fear being forced (with the threat of lawsuits) to marry gay couples despite it being against that particular religion's beliefs.

I don't know about other faiths, but I know our Catholic church refused to marry a family member because her partner was divorced. *shrug* Could they have sued? I doubt it, but who knows.

I think that's the only argument that gives me pause. I don't think we should create a situation where all religious institutions are forced to do something they vehemently oppose (regardless of how we feel about such a opinion).

If there was something in place that would protect Churches, Mosques, Temples, etc. from this legal issue, then the argument against gay marriage might be reduced to a social one only.
 
well it also recommends

stoning people so we don't do that either. Times change. We don't stone people in this country anymore. Once upon a time the Catholic church recommended beating one's wife at least once a week to make sure she didn't get it in her head that she was an equal to a man.
 
btw I live in N Cal

LauraMax said:
I think most of the objections are rooted in religion. The Mormons spent something like $20 mil to make sure Prop 8 passed.

But I agree w/you--there's so much hatred in this world, why be against 2 people loving each other, regardless of their gender? :mad:
Click to expand...

and it was creepy!!! they called my house, my neighbors who are mormon and leaned heavily on my mother to vote for it (I hope she didn't.) I have heard that the church elders forced their congregation to vote for this. This came down from two churches and I don't understand why people from Utah were allowed to call us and be just this side of belligerent. They weren't even all from our state!
 
RapidBreath said:
stoning people so we don't do that either. Times change. We don't stone people in this country anymore. Once upon a time the Catholic church recommended beating one's wife at least once a week to make sure she didn't get it in her head that she was an equal to a man.
Click to expand...

Yep, and the "rule of thumb" actually allowed men, by law to beat their wives with anything no thicker than the widths of their thumbs. Crazy!
 
I think marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. If we re-define the word as between anyone, who's to say marriage can't be between a man and a goat. Or a woman and a four year old. Or a man and five women.

I don't care if gays want to be a couple. If they want a monogamous relationship, wonderful. But I don't believe it is a marriage, as defined religiously (yes, religiously) AND historically.

JMHO. I'm not throwing any stones and hope to not get hit by any in return.
 
buffettgirl said:
I think marriage is defined as between a man and a woman. If we re-define the word as between anyone, who's to say marriage can't be between a man and a goat. Or a woman and a four year old. Or a man and five women.

I don't care if gays want to be a couple. If they want a monogamous relationship, wonderful. But I don't believe it is a marriage, as defined religiously (yes, religiously) AND historically.

JMHO. I'm not throwing any stones and hope to not get hit by any in return.
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ITA!! And don't even go there!! I am not a homophobe -- just ask one of my oldest and dearest friends who happens to be gay, and yes, he also happens to support my view on gay marriage.

You can't assume that people with strong religious beliefs hate gays or are prejudiced against them. I heartily support CIVIL unions, just not "marriage" which IS a religious service. ;)
 
The post is really not supposed to "start" anything.
I just wonder why someone like Beatie (who is a woman) can marry another woman and that's okay. Just because he/she decided to keep her uterus and ovaries. Please no religion is this. I'm not sure it says anthing in there Bible, Kuran etc.about changing body parts to meet society's norms. In essence, 2 woman are legally married (one just took hormones and had her boobs removed. But he is still a woman.

And trust me there are a lot of horrible,hurtful, damaging to children heterosexual marriages out there. Why can't we ban them?
I mean 2 alcoholic parents who fight and pass out and leave their children to suffer the consequences is a "good thing"????? A man who beats his wife and refuses her contact with her family, thereby hurting and damaging the children is a "good thing"???? Cheating on your spouse and fathering a child is a "good thing"?

I am really curious what the big deal about gay marriage is. 2 heterosexual parents have homosexual children. Are we saying that 2 homosexual parents will raise anything but homosexuals. Is that worse than the drunken, abusive, delinquient children that some heteros are raising???

Enjoy your popcorn. Put some on for me too.
elliemom
 
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RapidBreath said:
Times change. We don't stone people in this country anymore.
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I'm not sure if this is a response to my post, but what the heck... :D

I agree. Again, I support gay marriage. But the Church will have more support opposing gay marriage if they scare the crap out of people with legal ramifications.

I say take the legal fear out of it, allow religious institutions who desire to do so deny gay marriage just like they deny others who don't "qualify" in their eyes (my divorced BIL, for example), and then those who oppose strictly on a social basis will have less teeth to their argument. Gay marriage won't affect them at all.

We should concentrate on keeping marriage a legal issue, as another poster pointed out, and not a religious matter.
 
When it boils down to it - marriage is a legal contract between two people (ask anyone that has been divorced about that one if you dont agree:p) - and having that contract allows for certain rights and benefits that others without that marriage "contract" can have.

Who am I or anyone else to judge who can have or not have that contract. If two people love each other and want to make that contract with each other - they should be allowed to. I have many gay friends and love them dearly and would never think they were lesser of citizens and not entitled to the same rights I have.

The whole Prop 8 is such a fiasco.... You would think in times where we can see our first Black president that we could let people be free to love and marry whom they wish.
 
Miss Lee said:
You can't assume that people with strong religious beliefs hate gays or are prejudiced against them. I heartily support CIVIL unions, just not "marriage" which IS a religious service. ;)
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Just have to add here, that I am married and religion had nothing to do with it. I was married in a hotel by a registrar with no mention of god or any other deity ... My marriage was definitely NOT a religious service. I am definitely married though.
 
Ellie, you can't post a question like this and ask no that religion be involved. My religion is a very, very important part of my life. It defines who I am, what I believe, what I value and how I respond to various issues. My belief in the Bible is what allows me to feel that homosexuality is wrong, and still try to love the homosexual as an individual. Sin is sin, we are all guilty of it and the the best we can do is try to overcome it and ask for forgiveness.
 
Ok, wasn't going to get into it, but doesn't the problem come in when we start combining the state and religion? I don't have answers but here are 2 issues which make my point:

1. Several years ago we had a local minister/pastor who, it turned out, had not been duly ordained. Who ordains ministers? The church? The state? I honestly don't know. But in all of the years this man had been preaching, he had performed 100s of marriages. All of these people had valid marriage licenses from the state. Without his being technically ordained, were those marriages null and void?

2. When I got married we had a lovely ceremony performed by both a minister and a judge (DH and I are both lawyers and this judge was my mentor). It was actually the judge who pronounced us man and wife, by the authority vested in him but the state. I have a valid marriage license, so I think I'm married. But in the eyes of the church, though our minister adminstered our vows, does the fact that the judge made the pronouncement mean we are not married in their eyes?

These issues get very fuzzy. Ok - I'll go back to the show.
 
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