Too Much Off the Beat, Not for Me

Soxy

Cathlete
Yesterday my workout was a "mish mosh" with parts from Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 and Plyo 1. I did premix #2: Extreme Low Impact 1 & 2 combined, paused and then added the main program of the Plyo HiiT 1. I was doing OK until the Dixie Cup Shuffles which were "off beat" (and I'm not loving that). Even some of my favorite moves like Weighted Explosive (side) Lunges were off beat & ultra fast. On some "off the beat" drills, I ignored Cathe and went with the beat of the music. I accomplished almost as many reps as she did. Losing a few reps each round seemed inconsequential as I was still breathing hard, but at least I felt like I had time to fully complete the movements. From that point I just started skipping over chapters in which the drills felt ungainly (I really liked the Fred Astair move though). Some of the combos in Plyo HiiT 1 flustered me with nothing but imaginary boxes and lines on the floor. I will stick to Plyo HiiT 2 which I love.

For my review of Plyo HiiT 2:
http://cathe.com/forum/threads/my-new-go-to-plyo-hiit-two.298443/

Having done all of the workouts in the RWH series now, there's plenty of cardio between HiiT Circuit UB, HiiT Circuit LB, & Plyo HiiT 2 to keep me very happy with this program.
 
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firemedic

Cathlete
I also had issues with the Dixie cup shuffles. I don't even use the Dixie cups, I just touch the floor. Since I'm on carpet, it's hard for me to shuffle that fast without hurting myself. So I just make sure I stay deep and touch the floor and my heart rate stays up.
 

nsaeolian

Cathlete
I have to be careful with stepping over the mat or other things like that as I have short little legs, and have almost wiped out tripping over the mat in the Low Impact Hiit DVDs. Maybe one of theelastic bands would be easier for me to step across, ha ha.
 
I agree, though I loved this workout and how different it was compared to her other low impact hiit workouts, the speed did throw me at times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I always turn the music option off and omit the mat and dixie cups. I don't really care for music during my workouts (cardio or otherwise) and the extra equipment is not necessary. I still think her original HiiT DVD (the one that has the three workout options: 40/20, 30/30) is harder than any of the ones in RWH. But, at 47, I don't really mind the easier stuff anymore once in a while. Since I'm right here, I want to say that I got sore from Beast Bulk legs like I haven't been sore in a long time. And while I'm babbling, anyone try that protein powder from Aloha?
 

Teals

Cathlete
I use two 2 pound weighted mini balls instead of dixie cups. They are a little higher off the ground than the cups but I grab them in a manner that makes up for the slight difference.

I don't mind any of the off the beat work. I enjoy having good music in my workouts If they were step workouts, I'd not want a bunch of off beat moves but some would be okay. I also like the faster moves. With some of the moves the only song I can think of that would keep up is "Flight of the Bumble Bee" and I definitely don't want to hear that while I'm working out. I figure the extra fast moves are to get us in the Hiit zone and challenge us in a different way than she has before. I already have her other Hiit workouts so I appreciate the variation and new challenge. I'm sure I won't be moving as fast as Cathe and the fab 4 initially but it gives me something to work toward.
 

Stebby

Cathlete
I always keep with the beat of the music - that way I don't always have to be watching the screen when I am concentrating on doing the moves, and I also feel a bit more competent when I am moving to the beat (it's the frustrated dancer in me). I don't quite get the point of moving at a different pace from the music - if it's not quite fast enough I would rather it be pitched up a bit so everyone is moving with the music. Similarly, when everyone is moving slower than the beat I would prefer the music to be slowed down too. That's just my personal taste though!

Stebby
 

maddiesmum

Cathlete
I always turn the music option off and omit the mat and dixie cups. I don't really care for music during my workouts (cardio or otherwise) and the extra equipment is not necessary. I still think her original HiiT DVD (the one that has the three workout options: 40/20, 30/30) is harder than any of the ones in RWH. But, at 47, I don't really mind the easier stuff anymore once in a while. Since I'm right here, I want to say that I got sore from Beast Bulk legs like I haven't been sore in a long time. And while I'm babbling, anyone try that protein powder from Aloha?



Barb:

your all-purpose, "babbling" post made me laugh! How are you? I'm happy to hear someone thinks RWH is easier than he 40/20 HiiT DVD: gives me hope I might actually be able to do RWH. The reviews were scaring me.......

Hope, haven't tried that protein powder: never touch the stuff!

Clare
 

maddiesmum

Cathlete
I always keep with the beat of the music - that way I don't always have to be watching the screen when I am concentrating on doing the moves, and I also feel a bit more competent when I am moving to the beat (it's the frustrated dancer in me). I don't quite get the point of moving at a different pace from the music - if it's not quite fast enough I would rather it be pitched up a bit so everyone is moving with the music. Similarly, when everyone is moving slower than the beat I would prefer the music to be slowed down too. That's just my personal taste though!

Stebby

I'm with Stebby, total agreement. If we aren't moving to the music, there is dissonance: disturbance, a lack of symmetry between what we hear and what we do. At this point, through all the years we have all faithfully exercised to DVDs at home, we are all so trained to coordinate our action to a set beat, whether lifting or jumping, that a beat that is too fast or too slow creates a further complication for the brain which is trying to coordinate physical effort and agility. Personally, an excess of sensory input that does not align simply causes frustration and migraines, not runner's high and euphoria.

Clare
 

forum_admin

Administrator
Staff member
Strictly following the beat of the music is something that was designed for steady state cardio and light weights, not necessarily high intensity interval training and heavy weights. Most hiit workouts and heavy weight workouts that are made today don't follow a beat at all and the music is either used just as background noise or for motivation.

Cathe's approach to using music in Ripped With HiiT is to follow a beat when it works and makes sense and to go off tempo when the beat doesn't work for the exercise. For example, in lifting a heavy weight your movement should slow as you exhaust the muscle with each rep. If you're following a beat throughout the entire set it means you're not exhausting the muscle and you're not lifting to failure which means you're not going to get the results you should. Strictly following a beat is fine for endurance training, but not heavy weights. The same is true for some cardio exercises too where you need to go all out or in some cases slow things down for safety. Not all individuals can do certain movements at the same speed as Cathe and this is where going off tempo is necessary.

Cathe is wired for music too and her life usually revolves around a 32 count, but she has learned through the years to be able to turn off the need to strictly follow a beat when it just doesn't make sense to do so. Ten years ago in our Gym it would have been unthinkable to do a class off tempo, nowadays it is considered the norm.
 

Soxy

Cathlete
For example, in lifting a heavy weight your movement should slow as you exhaust the muscle with each rep. If you're following a beat throughout the entire set it means you're not exhausting the muscle and you're not lifting to failure which means you're not going to get the results you should. Strictly following a beat is fine for endurance training, but not heavy weights.
I totally agree with that, but Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 are cardio/metabolic-endurance workouts.
The same is true for some cardio exercises too where you need to go all out or in some cases slow things down for safety. Not all individuals can do certain movements at the same speed as Cathe and this is where going off tempo is necessary.
Maybe it's because I workout on carpet that I feel can not do some of the movements of this workout at the same off tempo speed as Cathe, or maybe my brain does not want to move that fast when the music beat is slower. Most of this workout was off tempo, so why not just use faster tempo music? Others seem to recognize this too:
If we aren't moving to the music, there is dissonance: disturbance, a lack of symmetry between what we hear and what we do. At this point, through all the years we have all faithfully exercised to DVDs at home, we are all so trained to coordinate our action to a set beat, whether lifting or jumping, that a beat that is too fast or too slow creates a further complication for the brain which is trying to coordinate physical effort and agility. Personally, an excess of sensory input that does not align simply causes frustration and migraines, not runner's high and euphoria.
When I run, walk, bike, or rollerblade, I create playlists with faster and slower tempo music that motivates me to go faster & keep on the beat for the length of a song. When a slower song comes on it allows active cardiovascular recovery and I just focus on moving with the beat so I don't go too slow. That makes my brain and body feel good.
Ten years ago in our Gym it would have been unthinkable to do a class off tempo, nowadays it is considered the norm.
That's what "Cathe Live" is for, unique, exciting, in the gym with Cathe feel. IMHO, that's difficult to replicate in home exercise videos.

Again, having done all of the workouts in the RWH series now, there's plenty of cardio between HiiT Circuit UB, HiiT Circuit LB, & Plyo HiiT 2 to keep me very happy with this program.
 
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Cathe Friedrich

Administrator
Hi Everyone! Thanks for your comments. I always appreciate your feedback. I see Chris has already provided some explanation earlier in this thread and I will just add some further friendly explanation to some of the newer comments that were brought up regarding his response. My responses are the bolded responses.

Regarding the response: "I totally agree with that, but Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 are cardio/metabolic-endurance workouts".

I need to clarify that Low Impact Hit and Plyo HiiT 1 & 2 are NOT endurance workouts, they are high intensity interval workouts. Interval workouts will not follow a steady state cadence because steady state cadences generally reflect an endurance workout. Hence the reason for the fluctuation in speed throughout the Low Impact Hiit workouts. I agree the Dixie Cup shuffle feels great when done to the beat (which I have done to the beat in some of my other workouts) but when they ARE done to the beat they become steady state and no longer reflect the high intensity interval effect that Low Impact Hiit 1 & 2 workouts promise to deliver in 20 minutes.

Regarding the response: "If we aren't moving to the music, there is dissonance: disturbance, a lack of symmetry between what we hear and what we do. At this point, through all the years we have all faithfully exercised to DVDs at home, we are all so trained to coordinate our action to a set beat, whether lifting or jumping, that a beat that is too fast or too slow creates a further complication for the brain which is trying to coordinate physical effort and agility. Personally, an excess of sensory input that does not align simply causes frustration and migraines, not runner's high and euphoria."

Hiit workouts are all about shock training and taking the body out of the comfort zone to provide an increased metabolic response. Hiit workouts are not about finding the harmony in a workout. While I agree that the workouts you mentioned above have their balanced and euphoric place (and I LOVE LOVE LOVE those workouts too), Hiit workouts are all about changing things up and creating an atmosphere of muscle confusion for the body so it has a hard time adapting. Once the body adapts and finds a comfort zone in a workout the results will not be as impacting as they once were. So in the case of Low Impact Hiit 1 & 2 drastic change is a good thing. Especially when you want the best metabolic reaction for your body in 20 minutes or less.

Regarding the response: When I run, walk, bike, or rollerblade, I create playlists with faster and slower tempo music that motivates me to go faster & keep on the beat for the length of a song. When a slower song comes on it allows active cardiovascular recovery and I just focus on moving with the beat so I don't go too slow. That makes my brain and body feel good.

This mentioned format is definitely a nice format for a basic interval workout. But there is a big difference between matching movement to music in a DVD Hiit workout with rapid exercise changes verses matching movement to music for when you run, walk or rollerblade. The main reason being that in varied exercise Hiit workouts, everyone's body fatigues at a different speed at about 30 t0 40 seconds into the movement. Therefore participants will start to slow down at different times making it impossible to provide a tempo to match a movement. The only way I could match the move to the music would be to create an exercise that kept a steady doable cadence for the duration of the movement which now puts the workout in an endurance category verses an high intensity interval category. Even if I could do this (which I couldn't) each exercise is so short in duration the playlist wouldn't even allow for a song since no song is 60 seconds in length. Speeding up or slowing down the same song would sound so annoying that it would be distracting and not enhance the workout. You might be saying that the current way is equally distracting to the workout but trust me you would prefer the way I have it vs the speed up or slow down method of one song. If you truly want short music segments to match the varied exercise movements consider using my original Boot Camp workout which was designed to do this. I didn't use that format for the Low ImpactHiit workouts because the 20 minute format and exercise selections that I chose didn't make sense to do so.

Regarding the response: Maybe it's because I workout on carpet that I feel can not do some of the movements of this workout at the same off tempo speed as Cathe, or maybe my brain does not want to move that fast when the music beat is slower. Most of this workout was off tempo, so why not just use faster tempo music? Others seem to recognize this too:

I addressed this in my answer above when I said when doing varied exercise Hiit workouts, everyone's body fatigues at a different speed at about 30 t0 40 seconds into the movement. Therefore participants will start to slow down at different times making it impossible to provide a tempo to match a movement.


You will find that most "all out" HiiT workouts nearly always ignore the beat. I try to match the exercise to the music whenever possible, but some exercises are just more beneficial when done a little faster (or even slower ie: explosive alternating side lunges with a weight) than the beat and therefore its best to let the music motivate you - not guide you.

I hope this helps :)
 
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ReneePruitt

Cathlete
I get it, I try to do the movement as fast as I POSSIBLY can.. It isn't even looking as fast as Cathe and the crew and I was worried about that but as long as I am going as fast as I can then it is a HIIT and should do the job ? And because we are all at different levels and pace it's hard to find music that would match everyone's HIIT pace.. I guess is what I'm saying and u are saying lol that is how I am hearing this. ? To me that makes sense. Thanks
 

katrina_lynn

Active Member
Cathe, thank you so much for responding to this! Your explanation makes perfect sense for Hiit workouts, and I agree that it would be very choppy if the music sped up and slowed down repeatedly within the same song. I think what makes all the off-the-beat moves a little confusing for me, is that you and the crew are always moving in sync with each other, but not in sync with the music. In many other workouts (Insanity, Tapout, Weider Ruthless, to name a few), the music is just for background noise and everyone is working to their own beat and are not in sync with each other. I have an easier time going at my own pace in these workouts instead of feeling like I have to be in sync with you but not in sync with the music. I hope I explained that understandably! I love the RWH workouts and can see myself using them for a long time. Thank you so much for all you do!
 

Soapmaker

Cathlete
I have tried the combined low impact Hiit workout 3x so far and I love the music and the workout. I don't think Cathe could have done a better job putting it together. I think of the workout as training for speed and agility with great cardio benefit. The music keeps me moving. I found myself not noticing all the rests. I worked through a number of them.

I agree with Cathe's explanation. If the music sped up and slowed down to match the movement, it would make me anxious and really stressed out. It would defeat the purpose of working out. It would make the workout unusable for me. I understand that different people have their own preferences. For me, this workout is an instant cathe classic and worth the price of the set.
 
I get it, I try to do the movement as fast as I POSSIBLY can.. It isn't even looking as fast as Cathe and the crew and I was worried about that but as long as I am going as fast as I can then it is a HIIT and should do the job ? And because we are all at different levels and pace it's hard to find music that would match everyone's HIIT pace.. I guess is what I'm saying and u are saying lol that is how I am hearing this. ? To me that makes sense. Thanks

I agree. I just try to do the movements as fast as I possibly can and workout to my own ability. If I have to pause the dvd player a few times just to catch my breath (which I do quite often, lol) that is okay too. Cathe has been in the fitness industry for well over 30 years and on top of that exercising is her livelihood so I don't expect to be as conditioned as her. I haven't tried any of the Ripped with Hiit workouts yet since I'm delaying that until a little later in the year. I do know that she does one arm burpees in one of the Plyo dvds. I probably won't be able to do many of those, but I should still get an effective workout with just the regular two handed burpees.
 

runwithit

Member
Yesterday my workout was a "mish mosh" with parts from Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 and Plyo 1. I did premix #2: Extreme Low Impact 1 & 2 combined, paused and then added the main program of the Plyo HiiT 1. I was doing OK until the Dixie Cup Shuffles which were "off beat" (and I'm not loving that). Even some of my favorite moves like Weighted Explosive (side) Lunges were off beat & ultra fast. On some "off the beat" drills, I ignored Cathe and went with the beat of the music. I accomplished almost as many reps as she did. Losing a few reps each round seemed inconsequential as I was still breathing hard, but at least I felt like I had time to fully complete the movements. From that point I just started skipping over chapters in which the drills felt ungainly (I really liked the Fred Astair move though). Some of the combos in Plyo HiiT 1 flustered me with nothing but imaginary boxes and lines on the floor. I will stick to Plyo HiiT 2 which I love.

For my review of Plyo HiiT 2:
http://cathe.com/forum/threads/my-new-go-to-plyo-hiit-two.298443/

Having done all of the workouts in the RWH series now, there's plenty of cardio between HiiT Circuit UB, HiiT Circuit LB, & Plyo HiiT 2 to keep me very happy with this program.
Yesterday my workout was a "mish mosh" with parts from Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 and Plyo 1. I did premix #2: Extreme Low Impact 1 & 2 combined, paused and then added the main program of the Plyo HiiT 1. I was doing OK until the Dixie Cup Shuffles which were "off beat" (and I'm not loving that). Even some of my favorite moves like Weighted Explosive (side) Lunges were off beat & ultra fast. On some "off the beat" drills, I ignored Cathe and went with the beat of the music. I accomplished almost as many reps as she did. Losing a few reps each round seemed inconsequential as I was still breathing hard, but at least I felt like I had time to fully complete the movements. From that point I just started skipping over chapters in which the drills felt ungainly (I really liked the Fred Astair move though). Some of the combos in Plyo HiiT 1 flustered me with nothing but imaginary boxes and lines on the floor. I will stick to Plyo HiiT 2 which I love.

For my review of Plyo HiiT 2:
http://cathe.com/forum/threads/my-new-go-to-plyo-hiit-two.298443/

Having done all of the workouts in the RWH series now, there's plenty of cardio between HiiT Circuit UB, HiiT Circuit LB, & Plyo HiiT 2 to keep me very happy with this program.

I own almost all of Cathe's DVD's, subscribe to live, and I agree. I've done the entire series now and it's my least favorite compilation, largely because of the 'off the beat' issue. I also felt the workouts were rushed and the queuing was off.
I personally like music that is timed to the work out and for me it is a big motivator, though I'm sure it takes extra time when producing a DVD. I expect the best in the business to 'tick all the boxes' for a great workout. All in all, the set pales in comparison to xtrain and the low impact series. The high notes for me were both circuits, and the lift it hit it legs. I also love the idea of an intense but shorter workout option.
 

hiho322

Cathlete
Hi Everyone! Thanks for your comments. I always appreciate your feedback. I see Chris has already provided some explanation earlier in this thread and I will just add some further friendly explanation to some of the newer comments that were brought up regarding his response. My responses are the bolded responses.

Regarding the response: "I totally agree with that, but Low Impact HiiT 1 & 2 are cardio/metabolic-endurance workouts".

I need to clarify that Low Impact Hit and Plyo HiiT 1 & 2 are NOT endurance workouts, they are high intensity interval workouts. Interval workouts will not follow a steady state cadence because steady state cadences generally reflect an endurance workout. Hence the reason for the fluctuation in speed throughout the Low Impact Hiit workouts. I agree the Dixie Cup shuffle feels great when done to the beat (which I have done to the beat in some of my other workouts) but when they ARE done to the beat they become steady state and no longer reflect the high intensity interval effect that Low Impact Hiit 1 & 2 workouts promise to deliver in 20 minutes.

Regarding the response: "If we aren't moving to the music, there is dissonance: disturbance, a lack of symmetry between what we hear and what we do. At this point, through all the years we have all faithfully exercised to DVDs at home, we are all so trained to coordinate our action to a set beat, whether lifting or jumping, that a beat that is too fast or too slow creates a further complication for the brain which is trying to coordinate physical effort and agility. Personally, an excess of sensory input that does not align simply causes frustration and migraines, not runner's high and euphoria."

Hiit workouts are all about shock training and taking the body out of the comfort zone to provide an increased metabolic response. Hiit workouts are not about finding the harmony in a workout. While I agree that the workouts you mentioned above have their balanced and euphoric place (and I LOVE LOVE LOVE those workouts too), Hiit workouts are all about changing things up and creating an atmosphere of muscle confusion for the body so it has a hard time adapting. Once the body adapts and finds a comfort zone in a workout the results will not be as impacting as they once were. So in the case of Low Impact Hiit 1 & 2 drastic change is a good thing. Especially when you want the best metabolic reaction for your body in 20 minutes or less.

Regarding the response: When I run, walk, bike, or rollerblade, I create playlists with faster and slower tempo music that motivates me to go faster & keep on the beat for the length of a song. When a slower song comes on it allows active cardiovascular recovery and I just focus on moving with the beat so I don't go too slow. That makes my brain and body feel good.

This mentioned format is definitely a nice format for a basic interval workout. But there is a big difference between matching movement to music in a DVD Hiit workout with rapid exercise changes verses matching movement to music for when you run, walk or rollerblade. The main reason being that in varied exercise Hiit workouts, everyone's body fatigues at a different speed at about 30 t0 40 seconds into the movement. Therefore participants will start to slow down at different times making it impossible to provide a tempo to match a movement. The only way I could match the move to the music would be to create an exercise that kept a steady doable cadence for the duration of the movement which now puts the workout in an endurance category verses an high intensity interval category. Even if I could do this (which I couldn't) each exercise is so short in duration the playlist wouldn't even allow for a song since no song is 60 seconds in length. Speeding up or slowing down the same song would sound so annoying that it would be distracting and not enhance the workout. You might be saying that the current way is equally distracting to the workout but trust me you would prefer the way I have it vs the speed up or slow down method of one song. If you truly want short music segments to match the varied exercise movements consider using my original Boot Camp workout which was designed to do this. I didn't use that format for the Low ImpactHiit workouts because the 20 minute format and exercise selections that I chose didn't make sense to do so.

Regarding the response: Maybe it's because I workout on carpet that I feel can not do some of the movements of this workout at the same off tempo speed as Cathe, or maybe my brain does not want to move that fast when the music beat is slower. Most of this workout was off tempo, so why not just use faster tempo music? Others seem to recognize this too:

I addressed this in my answer above when I said when doing varied exercise Hiit workouts, everyone's body fatigues at a different speed at about 30 t0 40 seconds into the movement. Therefore participants will start to slow down at different times making it impossible to provide a tempo to match a movement.


You will find that most "all out" HiiT workouts nearly always ignore the beat. I try to match the exercise to the music whenever possible, but some exercises are just more beneficial when done a little faster (or even slower ie: explosive alternating side lunges with a weight) than the beat and therefore its best to let the music motivate you - not guide you.

I hope this helps :)

Thanks for the explanation, Cathe! I was wondering about all of this, too, and you make a lot of sense.
 
I have tried the combined low impact Hiit workout 3x so far and I love the music and the workout. I don't think Cathe could have done a better job putting it together. I think of the workout as training for speed and agility with great cardio benefit. The music keeps me moving. I found myself not noticing all the rests. I worked through a number of them.

I agree with Cathe's explanation. If the music sped up and slowed down to match the movement, it would make me anxious and really stressed out. It would defeat the purpose of working out. It would make the workout unusable for me. I understand that different people have their own preferences. For me, this workout is an instant cathe classic and worth the price of the set.

I have not completely explored RwH yet.

Having read comment, thank you Soapmaker for taking words out off my mouth!

So glad Cathe's product are made taking all these important details into account.
No wonder cathe's dvds are setting standard high.
 

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