The Secret is out!

paxy

Cathlete
I think that we are responsible for how we react to events in our lives we cannot control. I know that the difficult situations life may throw me are the times that I have the opportunity grow the most, depending on my attitude.

I like Oprah and think she has some good to offer, but I get a little nervous when she gives her stamp of approval on things because she has this following that hangs on every word she says. One week she tells you to happy with what you have and next week she tells you that you should and can have anything you want.

The "secret" is a personal thing, a personal journey and a personal faith.

Cheryl
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
>Let's be thankful for what we have and then do what we can
>with what we have to help others. I think your money might be
>better spent on donating to some organization such as Heifer
>International (www.heifer.org) ---no I don't work for them :)
>
>
>Mattea


I was thinking the exact same thing. If you've got $1,000 to give away, give it your local homeless shelter or shelter for battered women.
 

divagirl

Cathlete
"I like Oprah and think she has some good to offer, but I get a little nervous when she gives her stamp of approval on things because she has this following that hangs on every word she says. One week she tells you to happy with what you have and next week she tells you that you should and can have anything you want."

I don't thing that is really contradictory in any way. You should be happy with whatever it is that you have but it doesn't mean that you can't want something that you don't currently have. It means don't be "unhappy" because you don't have it or that you lack in any way.

As for the unfortunate experiences that people suffer like children hurting and impoverished soceities, why can't it be the law of attraction at work? But you'd have to believe in previous lifetimes and beliefs held over time and a much much larger picture to understand why someone might come into this world to be challenged at the start of a lifetime.
 

michele1967

Cathlete
I also believe that we are 100%
>responsible for everything in our lives that occur and I have
>also had terrible things happen. But I also think the beliefs
>we hold span over lifetimes (a whole other topic) and
>sometimes they are so unconscious you wouldn't even know
>unless you really searched.


"Wow. So how would you explain that to, say, parents who had a child killed by a drunk driver while walking home from school? How would the parents have "attracted" that?"


An excellent, simple, yet suspiciously unanswered question.......
 

peanut1129

Cathlete
>
>I also believe that we are 100%
>>responsible for everything in our lives that occur and I
>have
>>also had terrible things happen. But I also think the
>beliefs
>>we hold span over lifetimes (a whole other topic) and
>>sometimes they are so unconscious you wouldn't even know
>>unless you really searched.
>
>
>"Wow. So how would you explain that to, say, parents who had a
>child killed by a drunk driver while walking home from school?
>How would the parents have "attracted" that?"
>
>
>An excellent, simple, yet suspiciously unanswered
>question.......

Alright...I guess I'll answer this even though this is NOT what I believe. I THINK what they would say is either:

1. You are being too specific. The idea is negative attracts negative. Not you must have been thinking about your child being killed and that's why it happened.

2. You don't have any control over other people's lives, therefore, while your child tragically dying does affect you, it's ultimately your CHILD'S death--not your own.

3. As Divagirl mentioned, I think these people do believe in past lives, etc. so that may also "explain" why bad things can happen to innocent people.

This is the best I can come up with. Maybe someone who really understands this stuff can answer these questions better...
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
>As another skeptic I just wanted to add, how does this way of
>thinking explain those who are starving to death in third
>world nations? That you have to have a certain amount of money
>or opportunity for this to work for you? Isn't this just
>another way of disenfranchising, excluding, and making
>invisible the poor or oppressed?
>
>And what about children (civilian) casualties in war time? Or
>children born with diseases, conditions, and birth defects? Is
>that the fault of the parents or the child?
>


Ahhh...Mattea...these questions have challenged the greatest thinkers since the beginning of time.

Fortunately, I think I can see how The Secret would provide the simple answer.

Third-world countries obviously have a lot of suffering and misfortune so, according to the "Law of Attraction", these societies must be carrying a huge collective surplus of negative thoughts and energy. They are "attracting" disease, hunger and poverty because there are simply too many negative thoughts radiating from that society.

The answer, of course, is to get these entire societies hooked into The Secret. That way, they could exude positive energy, attract prosperity to their societies, and eliminate all the bad things like disease, hunger and poverty. Of course, they would have to be really diligent and guard against any single person having negative thoughts that would attract the bad things. Everyone at all times would have to exude positive energy or the whole system could break down. But imagine..no more disease...no more suffering.

Think of the possibilities. The whole world right now is operating with surplus of negative energy -- that's why bad things happen. If we could get everyone to tap into the "Law of Attraction", we'd eliminate suffering from the world. Think of what could have been avoided if the people who died during the Holocaust or in the World Trade Center bombings had just tapped into the "Law of Attraction".
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
>
>As for the unfortunate experiences that people suffer like
>children hurting and impoverished soceities, why can't it be
>the law of attraction at work? But you'd have to believe in
>previous lifetimes and beliefs held over time and a much much
>larger picture to understand why someone might come into this
>world to be challenged at the start of a lifetime.

That's a pretty big assumption. The bottom line is that no one knows what happens before we're born or after we die. If The Secret is based on this premise, then I think it's got a pretty weak foundation.
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
>1. You are being too specific. The idea is negative attracts
>negative. Not you must have been thinking about your child
>being killed and that's why it happened.

>
>2. You don't have any control over other people's lives,
>therefore, while your child tragically dying does affect you,
>it's ultimately your CHILD'S death--not your own.

Okay...so the child attracted the child's own death? How does that happen exactly?
>
>3. As Divagirl mentioned, I think these people do believe in
>past lives, etc. so that may also "explain" why bad things can
>happen to innocent people.

Those are big assumptions, if that's what it takes to make "the system" work.
 

peanut1129

Cathlete
>
>>1. You are being too specific. The idea is negative attracts
>>negative. Not you must have been thinking about your child
>>being killed and that's why it happened.
>
>>
>>2. You don't have any control over other people's lives,
>>therefore, while your child tragically dying does affect
>you,
>>it's ultimately your CHILD'S death--not your own.

>
>Okay...so the child attracted the child's own death? How does
>that happen exactly?

Again..you are being too specific. It's just negative attracts negative...

>>
>>3. As Divagirl mentioned, I think these people do believe in
>>past lives, etc. so that may also "explain" why bad things
>can
>>happen to innocent people.
>
>Those are big assumptions, if that's what it takes to make
>"the system" work.

Pretty much all belief systems ask people to take on "big assumptions", right?
>
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
>Again..you are being too specific. It's just negative attracts
>negative...
>
So what would be an example of that? If the Law of Attraction applies to EVERYTHING, it has to apply to the specific as well...
 

peanut1129

Cathlete
I just wanted to say a few things that I'm thinking about regarding this topic:

1. I agree that the marketing of these ideas as "the Secret" seems a little shady. I mean these people have been writing books, lecturing, etc. for years so I don't think it is right that someone decided to get people all amped up that some secret was going to be revealed when it is NOT new information.

2.However, people that do believe in this stuff generally try to be good people because they believe that only good attracts good.

3.Plenty of people on this forum have expressed their skepticism, which is fine..everyone is entitled to their opinion. And whatever each person chooses to believe is personal to them.

4. This is a very personal way of looking at life and for those who believe it I'm not sure why anyone needs to try to convince them that it is wrong and/or incorrect. No one is hurting anyone by believing in this and I'm sure we each have something that we believe in that someone else could try to show us that we aren't 'right' to believe.

Just my thoughts...
 

peanut1129

Cathlete
>
>>Again..you are being too specific. It's just negative
>attracts
>>negative...
>>
>So what would be an example of that? If the Law of Attraction
>applies to EVERYTHING, it has to apply to the specific as
>well...

Well...sure...you could be hoping that you die and then you die--that would be a specific. But...I don't think that usually happens. An example might be....you are in need of some money and you find $20 in a coat pocket. You're going to say that is a coincidence...but that isn't how some people would see it...
 

andtckrtoo

Cathlete
I'm finding this conversation fascinating for a couple of reasons. My DH is Indian. And he's a high born Indian (not Native American - Eastern Indian). So, he comes from the belief that what he's done in his past lives has given him the station and opportunities he has today. This is not because of a book or a fad - this is a belief ingrained into him through his Hindu heritage. He does try to be a good person and treat people well. And honestly, people adore him and treat him well because of the way he treats them. So, there is a lot to be said for the idea that good attracts good.

To a point. I've seen the flip side of this belief, also in India, especially if we're talking about multiple lives. If I am good and in a good place in life (because of my goodness) and I run into someone who is begging on the street do I have the right to help that person who is obviously only begging on the street because of the fact that they are NOT good and the spirits, the gods or the universe made that person a beggar because they are bad or were bad in a different life?

Seriously - I don't think anyone who reads the book would really feel that way, but I did immediately think that way because of what I have seen.

Jennifer is so right - this is not new - it's as old as the hills (the Hindu religion is very old). But, I have no issues with someone wrapping it in a different package and marketing out to the masses. Isn't that way America is all about - free enterprise...
 

saia11

Cathlete
Lucinda---
"Fortunately, I think I can see how The Secret would provide the simple answer."

Yeah, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. How is it that white, prosperous, anglo-saxon, judeo-christian's seem to have this positive thing down and large populations of those who have darker skin, less money, a different culture, and a different religion just can't get positive enough?

I have a hard time believing the past life explanation either. I still don't see how you can look at a child starving to death and say that they must have been "bad" in a past life and then change the channel or close the newspaper.

I'm not trying to poke fun at anyone's beliefs, just expressing why this doesn't work for me.

Mattea
 

Miss Lee

Cathlete
>Yeah, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. How is it
>that white, prosperous, anglo-saxon, judeo-christian's seem to
>have this positive thing down and large populations of those
>who have darker skin, less money, a different culture, and a
>different religion just can't get positive enough?
>

Never mind...I misread your comment. Sorry.;)
 

sahara

Cathlete
>
>>
>So what would be an example of that? If the Law of Attraction
>applies to EVERYTHING, it has to apply to the specific as
>well...<

Lucinda, you're putting out a lot of negative energy with all these questions. All you have to do is believe and think positive ;). The universe will take care of the rest :). Seriously though, I read a line in a book once that aptly describes why I just cannot buy into this. To paraphrase, the author was making the point that to live in the metaphysical/spiritual world, one must have the ability to suspend logic. That is just not something that I am willing to do. I can understand the benefits of keeping a positive outlook but I have major problems with the law of attraction for many of the reasons already stated.
 

sahara

Cathlete
>>I've seen the flip side of this belief, also in
>India, especially if we're talking about multiple lives. If I
>am good and in a good place in life (because of my goodness)
>and I run into someone who is begging on the street do I have
>the right to help that person who is obviously only begging on
>the street because of the fact that they are NOT good and the
>spirits, the gods or the universe made that person a beggar
>because they are bad or were bad in a different life?
>
>Seriously - I don't think anyone who reads the book would
>really feel that way, but I did immediately think that way
>because of what I have seen.
>

What would someone that read the book feel? And, please don't tell me to read the book. I've read quite a few books like this which is one of the reasons why I have the beliefs about it that I do. I am truly interested in your perspective, though. Assuming that someone did do something bad or didn't think positively enough in a past life, hence their suffering now, is there ever a way out for them? Are they and their offspring doomed to a life of poverty? Is a situation where someone lives in abject poverty reversable by simply changing the way they think about the situation?

Tracey
"Do or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Where there's a will, there's a way."
 

Flyweight

Cathlete
I am not trying to trash anyone's belief system. I don't think any single system holds the complete Truth and I think that all systems have some piece of the Truth.

I have these kinds of discussions with people I know and people I don't all the time. Typically we end up having a beer together. So, to everyone out there, please enjoy a virtual beer on me!!

The Law of Attraction certainly doesn't fit into my view of the world. I don't see how it can be consistent with *anyone's* view of the world. There are simply too many things beyond our control. At least recovery and 12-step programs and many faith traditions teach that it's important to determine what you can't control and to surrender control. Can someone *really* say that everything that has happened in their life has been determined by their positive or negative "energy"??

From what I see, The Secret feeds into our cultural idea that we're entitled to get whatever we want (that will make us "happy" or "successful"). If we're not successful, we must be doing something wrong or we're not trying hard enough or we just don't "get it". If you're a "failure", figure out what's wrong and fix it. It's a very self-indulgent fantasy. And don't let on if you're fearful, sad or angry. Those emotions will make you confront your own mortality or make your realize that the world is full of suffering and a much bigger place than you imagined.

I feel sorry for the woman who wrote:

"I too have been listening to the secret tapes everyday consistently and have tried to be positive. I am disappointed that I haven't received anything that I asked for. Also, my husband's business hasn't been good for past 3 weeks. He has been unable to take a paycheck for himself in that time. Could you please ask your Secret guests why this is happening? I have been faithful to the tapes and DVD and still things haven't improved. I would appreciate if this message could be passed onto them as maybe they could help me. Perhaps they have some suggestions for me to speed things up because we need help now. THANKS SO MUCH."

And here was a response:

"Your mind fires off 60,000 thoughts a day! How can you think positive thoughts but harbor negative emotions...It's called counter-intending. The more you fear something it expands until it gets so big it explodes. This is called chaos. In order for your outer world to calm. You MUST calm your inner world. The secret is to re-arrange your beliefs so they are in alignment with what you want. What are beliefs, assumptions you have made based on your experiences in this life time and maybe other lifetimes. You must become radically responsible for your life. No 1 Can change your life but you. Whatever subconscious belief you have must be eradicated and replaced with a positive, uplifting belief. I could suggest millions of methods however you are you and only what works for you will work. Funny thing is I only know this intuitively, ain't nothing worked for me either. Maybe...holodynamics or PSYCH-K...hmmmm."

How do you know if you're ever getting it right???

Yes, there are people around who are more than happy to take your money and offer a quick and simple solution....
 

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