Discipling Children?

L

lorihart

Cathlete
Being a parent has to be the hardest job in the world.I have one child and there are days when I do not know how to handle certain situations.And today is one of them.
I said to my DH,years ago kids got punished b/c they were being bad,not for any other reasons.To me,it seems as if we have to find the route of the problem before we can punish them.
I don't know about you, but I was just punished b.c I did something that wasn't right.Not b/c I was having peer presure or b/c I missed someone etc......and I turned out just fine.If you ask me kids aren't punished as much as they should be.
We have been letting alot of things that she does slide.Something that she might say that is probably not appropriate but your just having one of those days, where you may not actually even hear what she said.
DH was gone for two days and he arrived home yesterday afternoon.While he was gone she mentioned that she missed him and even slept with one of his shirts.I was talking to DH last night while I was at work and he said that she was being really mean to him.She told him that she hated him.He didn't do anything about it, but his sister was very upset, told her about it and I think everyone else in the room was also dumbfound.
It didn't get brought up again until tonight.We were having dinner and I was just talking about how her behaviour changes when I walk in a room,or the way she acted at the mall today, or the way she acted the other day when a little girl came to the house.
I hate to say it but she is getting very selfish and acts to old for her age.
There are also no kids on our street which makes it harder for her to play with kids that she knows.But I told her tonight that she is going to be spending less time watching t.v and more time on her bike finding friends to play with.
But tonight really took the cake.Last year her grandparents gave her $100 for passing grade 1.This year as been a little harder for them.They can still afford $100 but there is really no reason to give her that much money.My MIL found out a few weeks ago that she had breast cancer and she has been off of work for the last 2 weeks and doesn't know when she is going back so they needed the money more the my daugther did.Yesterday after she got her report card I told her that Nanny and Poppy can't afford to give you as much money as they did last year and I explained to her why.She was fine with that at the time and said she didn't need anything from them. Tonight my DH tells me that while they were at my in laws house last night, she not only asked for her $100 but thought that she should get $200 b/c she passed grade 2. I was absolutely FURIOUS.To put someone in that situation is unexceptable in my eyes and my in laws are the type of people who would feel bad about not giving her something.I asked her why she did it and did she do it b/c she thought I wasn;t going to find out and she admitted it.She thought that I was never going to know that she asked.I have never been so mad before in my LIFE!
Not only that, but she as been rearranging things that she says.She could say something to someone, they will repeat it and she'll say no thats not what I said.Last night when she told DH she hated him, her version of that was, I said, I am ACTING like I am hating you right now.
I just don't know what to do with her.Do I take the silly t.v shows away from her? Do I preach to her the importance of treating others the way you want to be treated? Do I have to tell her EVERYTIME that we go somewhere that she has to be good? I don't think I should have to do this to a 8 year old who thinks she is 20. Sometimes I think that she thinks she is intitled to things.She will want to know why she can't buy something after we buy something for ourselves.
1.Is she watching to much t.v?
2.Am I being to hard on her?
3.Is there a route to this problem or is she just being bad?
4.Do you give previlages back one by one?
5.Is she spoiled?
6.Is it b/c she is an only child?
7.Is it just a stage?
Everytime I take her somewhere I get a knot in my stomach b/c I don't know what she is going to say.Today while I was talking to a man I work with and out of the blue she said, Is he annoying? Like...what was that about? I don't know if she was trying to be funny or what.
I am just so stressed out about this tonight.I sent her to her room and told her that she wasn't going to be watching any t.v this week and when she did start watching t.v again it wasn't going to be "Thats so Raven" and "The Amanda Show".She is going to be spending more time outdoors playing.Then I went back into room a little while ago and asked her what was wrong? Are we doing anything wrong? Do we not spend enough time with you? No was her answer.
I really need some insight on this.I know there are alot of mothers around here and I am sure most of you have dealt with similar problems.
Sorry this was so long.
Lori
:-(
I also wanted to add that she is not being told how bad she is or anything like that.When she gets punished we usually tell her that she is not a bad kid (b/c she isn't normally, but there are those days)but we focus on what she did that was wrong.By the time we are finshed talking to her she is just glad it is overm and she will switch the subject as if no one every mentioned anything.Didn't want anyone to think I abusive in anyway.
 
Hi Lori:

sounds like your daughter is giving you some headaches right now....if you have left things she has done and said recently slide, then you sure are paying for it now. Seems like now is a good time to tighten the parental control and discipline and set exact limits to her behaviour. She is clearly testing you, pushing to see how far she can go. It may well be a stage, it also sounds like she's receiving certain influences to her behaviour from both school and TV.

I don't let my 8 year old watch the Amanda show, I don't think it is good TV. There certainly is nothing eduational about it. In fact, we have stopped paying cable and are now not watching any TV at all, and I can testify that TV does change kids' behaviour for the worst. Kids get pushy, they ask for stuff incessantly because advertising tells them that they can have it if they just manipulate their parents in the right way. My kids are no longer exposed to the "go, grab, get, seize, demand" culture that TV promotes and we are healthier for it. So, the good news is that your daughter is clearly intelligent: she has picked up on all the messages!

Now obviously you are not going to stand for it. 8 year olds do not get to expect $100 from anyone, and certainly not to double it to $200. I would do several things here: firstly, I would speak to all friends and relatives and ask them to confer with me before any gift giving of any kind. This would allow me to vet their offerings and taper them down. The second thing I would do is sit the little Miss right down for a parent-daughter chat that she can't get out of. The messages to convey to her are several. Kids don't need money for passing school: it is expected that they do this, that is their job! I tell my kids that we all have responsibilities and jobs to do: Mum and dad go to work and bring in money to provide for them, but their job is to do well at school, make friends, do their homework and help out around the house and be a part of the family. Giving a kid money for studying sets up terrible expectations and puts a monetary value to education that will not create the right attitude in your child's mind and could adversely affect her future studies. She should want to study to find out things, to do well, to please you and make you happy, and for her own self-satisfaction and self esteem.

If you haven't yet read Beverley Cleary's "Ramona" series with your daughter, now is definitely the time. In the series, Ramona has to learn to take her place in her family, and that she too has responsibilities, that Mum and Dad cannot do everything, that money does not grow on trees, and that kids have to contribute to make the family work too. The books aren't preachy at all: rather, they are a lot of fun and brilliantly well written. They could help you get the message across to her.

Then I think I would ssimply take TV out of the equation because your daughter is not being encouraged to act like an 8 year old. take away the TV and she will again fall back upon her own resources, she will revert to playing as a kid should, to riding her scooter, calling a friend round, getting all her dolls out and teaching them school. My kids are not paart of the "growing old before their time" culture that seems endemic. My 10 year old truly is 10, she's a kid, she plays with dolls sstill, uses her imagination, invents games like crazy. Bot my kids do. IN many ways they are younger than their peers at school, many of whom already think they are tenaagers with attitudes and clothes' sense to match. It 'aint happening to my kids, I don't let it and I don't provide an atmosphere at home where it can flourish.

You are lucky: your daughter is still only 8 and therefore you still are the largest influence in her life. You still have time to get your messages and moral code across to her, but you will have to play tough for a while. No more Mrs. Nice Mom. I'm not talking physical abuse here at all. And neither were you, I understood that. But you set limits and state terms. Homework to be done by certain time, delineate what her chores are (set table for dinner, make her bed, put out the recycleables, whatever), get rid of the TV, limit computer time (in my house we have a rule: one hour's reading earns one hour's computer time), maximum time outdoors for physical play, and take away privileges if her attitude turns sour or she gives you lip. It's that simple. If she can't speak nice to people, you don't have to treat her nice either.

Kids want to be good and to please their parents, they really do. But sometimes we have to help them and helping them means setting limits and sticking to them. Don't let bad behaviour slide......

Hope some of this helps Lori,

Clare
 
Never fear! Hope is on the way. Parenting is such a great challenge but you need to have confidence that you will find something that will work for you.

Sounds like you have a precocious little child there who is smart and is training you, not the other way around.

To me it sounds like you are afraid of her too.

My take on it is this. Education is one part and there are many books that I would recommend. Positive discipline for Children is one of them. The other book is The Power of Positive Parenting. Another one is called Raising a Self Reliant Child In A Self Indulgent World.

Another aspect of this is that your child is too young to be intrinsicly motivated to be good. She is still in training. It takes, on average about 100 times for a child to learn a new principle. So don't give up on training her. it will add up over time.

From what you have said, the biggest problem is that she doesn't have an environment of need and so therefore she has no motivation to learn appropriate behavior. When a child has access to all of their entertainment, treats, trips, etc. and doesn't have to earn any of it, they turn into spoiled brats. We can fall into the trap of thinking that if we provide all of theses great things that the child will love us and appreciate what they have. WRong!

I would make sure that your daughter has a schedule of chores that she is expected to perform. Contributing to the family will help her appreciate all of you. She can earn t.v. time, play time with her toys, etc. with those activities.

keep in mind that the problem is multifaceted. Children need constant positive input. This lets them know what they are doing right. If all they get is feedback on what they are doing wrong-it demoralized them. Similarly, if a child isn't getting enough positive feedback, they will act out to get attention. negative attention is better than no attention.

One strategy you can try right away is to notice 20 things a day that she is doing right and make sure you acknowledge her for that. Do that for a day or two and see if the tone of the home will change.

Good luck. You will find what works. Just don't give up. it is worth doing. Be consistent and don't promise or threaten anything that you won't follow through with. in other words, don't lie to your child.

I always keep this saying in mind. It came from my grandmother. She used to say, "I will always love you but it is my job to raise you so that other people will love you as much as i do."

Danna
 
I'm no expert, but here are my 2 cents from experience.

If either of my kids (2 sons, 12 and 13yo) behave in a way I don't like or disapprove of, I simply treat them the same way. Afterwards, I always ask them how it made them feel. It takes a few times, but they are more aware now of how their behaviour affects others. Discussing this, they are also more aware that people respond to their behaviour. Every action is followed by a reaction. You want it to be a positive one, behave positive.

Another way to make them aware is make them explain to the person they were offensive to or impolite to (or whatever) why they did what they did and apologise for it. I usually would have discussed the matter beforehand with this person emphasing that he/she should thell how it made them feel.

Turning kids into responsible adults is a very long process which starts at birth.

Dutchie


BTW I also make sure if I punish them, that the punishment makes sense to them. Taking away the tv because they were impolite doesn't make sense. To me anyway and I don't think a child would either. If my child would have the audacity to ask for money, I would make him earn that money. Go find a job (ie help the neighbour in the garden) and learn how hard you have to work and how long to get that money. That'll teach him the worth of money and what his grandparents have to do to be able to give it if they wanted to.
 
Lori, I hate to tell you this but your post made me chuckle. Your daughter is a fine child and you are doing a great job with her. I remember the first time my oldest child looked at me and said, "I hate you!". I was wounded and shocked but in the intervening years I have heard it so many times and it no longer has much impact. With my youngest, who got into the habit of saying it, and here's a side note on the youngest child, they pick up so much from older sibs that they often use language that they would come up with as older children if they didn't have those bad influences teaching them more sophicated methods of getting under mom's skin. Of course, the older children refer to the younger ones as the ones' who came along and "ruined my life, so all things being equal....

Anyway, with # three, I started discussing language. You don't really hate me, you are angry with me, so please tell me "you made me mad", yada, yada, yada. Of course, the next time he was ticked, I said you don't really hate me, you're mad," he replied, "No, I HATE you!" :D But I knew that he was mad and knowing that I dealt with him more calmly becasue I get mad and say things I don't mean at times and kids do too.

Your daughter may have made you wince with her request for $200.00 but hey, she received $100.00 the year before and if $100.00 is appropriate for 1st grade, why not $200.00 for second? LOL! Yep, she needs to be talked to and taught that it's not appropriate to ask for more dough but that doesn't make her a rotten child. She is probably unaware of the emotional strain going on because of her grandmothers health unless you have explained that (?) and it may still be difficult for her to comprehend the magnitude of that unless she has a point of reference, like knowing someone who's died from cancer or experienced a terrible illness and a dollar says you would be buffering her ability to experience that because she's a child. I would also hazard to guess your mother-in-law might know how greedy children can be, particularly when they have received a large amount of money in the past. If she doesn't she should. Make sure everyone knows that while that may not have been the greatest request, your daughter may not have understood that but she will! I'll bet grandma and grandpa love her still. I know there have been times when I was downright furious with one of my kids for something like that but the grandparents understood and forgave quite quickly. And then my inner child told me that they would never have defended ME like that when I was a kid. :) But my kids are their grandkids and that's a different kettle of fish! My three kids are the only grands of my in laws who send each $100.00 for birthdays. My mother has 30 grandkids and sends each $25.00. That's $750.00 to $300.00 that each grandparent puts out. I can't get mad at my kids for longing for $100.00 from my mom. But I have taught them that $25.00 from the granny on the fixed income is equal to $100.00 from the grandparents who didn't raise 13 kids. They still miss that $70.00 because who doesn't like money?

At times, my kids are greedy, opportunistic little buggers. The more I let them get away with that, the more it occurs. At times, they are warm, caring humans. The more I model compassion and giving, the more they learn that. Love her, teach her and don't beat yourself up when the behavior isn't all you would like. It is a tough job raising a good kid and good kids act like monsters sometimes but they learn if you are willing to teach them and we live in a different world today. I rarely received expensive gifts. No $50.00 video games or high tech toys. They didn't exist. They do now and my kids expect them. Sometimes they have to earn them. Sometimes they receive them as gifts for no better reason than that's what is going on.

With the culture we live in, it's easy to raise spoiled, materialistic kids. Set limits and create filters. I have often found that the more spoiled a child seems the more that child needs and even longs for boundaries that aren't being set. Create them and you'll raise a lovely child!

P.S. I always used to tell anyone who called children spoiled that they really can't be. When things are spoiled we throw them out and there are are no disposable people. You cannot give too much love but that's not the same as overindulgance. Sometimes parents need to learn that as much as kids. Always giving in is not a way to show love. It's that much more difficult when the world moves so quickly and we seem to be required to get them what everyone else has and put them in every activity under the sun. And working parents have it tougher because they are often made to feel guilty for the time they miss. But they should not buy into the myth. You have to meet their requirements and love them with all of your heart. You have to teach them that things are nice but not the most important thing and it's ok to say no! If I had a dollar for everytime I have said, "Sometimes no just means no!", I could afford to indulge their every whim but I'd be a fool to because they would have no idea of the value of anything. I have gotten to the point where I limit activities, insist on sitting down to dinner as a family more nights than not and they have gotten used to it and none of them has died from being told that they couldn't have something or do something and they all get over having the meanest mother in the world eventually!

I screw up at times, ok, I screw up alot ;) but every day's a new chance for all of us to learn and I know I am decent human being in spite of my shortcomings. That being so, I can raise some lovely critters if I keep striving for a balance of love and dicipline!
Bobbi http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif "Chick's rule!"

Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?

- Mary Oliver
 
My oldest son has on occasion yelled "I hate you" to me, and my respons has always been with a big smile "I love you too sweetheart, we'll talk later when you're not so angry". Once he's cooled down he always apologises and we talk about why he was so angry. So far it had never anything to do with me, but with friends or school.

And Bobbi is right, she doesn't hate you, she's just angry and doesn't know how else to express herself to make you understand just how angry she is.

Bobby I'm so pleased to read that there are more mean mothers in this world:)

Dutchie
 
Hi Lori! I have two grown boys so I'm not much help in the girl department. However, that won't stop me from putting in my 2 cents!

When the boys were small, I vividly remember that I needed to change the way I dealt with the boys from time to time. You do what's appropriate for the age. Then suddenly I was saying "They're brats!" And we'd change the rules to their newest phase of growing up.

My job includes motivating kids for the joy of doing something (intrinsic). You can spot the kids, even at age 5, who have been motivated by rewards. How can I tell the difference? The kids who are used to getting rewards are not creative, risk-takers, and very afraid of doing something wrong. There's a great book called, "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Cohen. Get it from the library to see his take on our society's reward-based system. He's a bit dramatic but gets the point across well.

Another book I can highly recommend is "There's Gotta Be A Better Way - Discipline That Works", forget the author. It's a great read and will make you feel better! A lot of the book is based on "natural consequences" which takes mom as the usual bad guy out of the picture. Another good, old, book is "The Difficult Child."

I like the "natural consequences" approach. It's what life's all about. Age 8 is a perfect age to change it up because they ARE starting to develop a conscience.

And my last tip of the day: Don't try to have a conversation with yes and no answerable questions. You start by talking and then talking ensues with your child. Or at least sometimes! If you start by talking about a "something" then the conversation will eventually include "feelings" because it becomes safe to talk.

You'll be fine! Hope I've given you some ideas that are helpful, Alexis
 
HI Everyone,
Thanks for the responses.When I was posting last night she was having a nap, then she woke up,read a few books and went back to sleep again. Of course she is being an amazing child today b/c she wants her previliages back.I am sure she will soon stop acting like an angel and go back to acting like a child.
She obviously thinks that she is going to be getting previliages back very soon b/c she asked if we could go see a movie,then she asked if one of her cousins could stay for alnight and then she asked if she could have a friend over.Then she said that she gets to watch t.v in 3 more days, I corrected her on the fact that a week is longer then 3 days and when she does get to watch t.v again, it will be for only a hour a day.
I think I am also going to post her chores in her room and as she does them she can mark them off.
Anyway, a very boring rainy day here.Its only a matter of time before she starts being high maintence so that we will let her watch t.v. She pulls tricks like that to.
Thanks again,
Lori
:)
 
I am a beleive that if you are consistant in your punishments and adhere to what you tell them you will do, they will come out fine. Whenever I have heard my children or grnadchildren say they hate someone or say something offensive about someone else I explained to them how it feels to the other person. I make them appologize. If it does not seem heartfelt we talk some more and they may end up in the corner. All in all whatever their reaction I am sure it makes an impact. All of my children have grown to be happy well adjusted adults and good parents. Raising chldren is not easy. It has its rewards. Sometimes you may think you are not doing well but stick with it. It will come out in the end as long as you are a loving parent.
Diane Sue
 
I have to admit I love the way I punish my children, I make them wash dishes for a week for some real bad offenses. Or for fighting I make them sit down and write sentances, and if the argue I add 10 more sentance and if I have to do that 3 times then I take something away that they like. It has worked great for my one pistol daughter. My other daughter is real easy I just take something away and that works for her. As for my oldest son, he was failing school so I took all his stuff away all but his bed, dresser, clothes. and I made him earn them all back one piece at a time and it worked he came home with awesome grades! I do let some things slip, I learned to think in the basket way to let me know what is the most priority to correct.
I do agree that kids are so hard now days. I always tell my hubby if my 4'th child was the first he would be an only child because he is my most difficult child, He is now on strattera and doing better on that.
 
Hi Lori,

You've gotten some excellent advice. You are a wonderful mom, and your daughter is going to turn out just fine! I don't think you are doing anything wrong, and I think it is especially great that you emphasize bad behavior, not "bad kid." All of the things these wise women have told you are true. I'd like to add that sometimes we forget that kids are like little adults, which probably sounds incredibly dumb. My point is that, like adults, kids experience a full range of emotions, however, they have yet to learn how to distinguish many of them and express their feelings. Whenever there is a situation brewing, I step back and try to put myself in the kid's shoes. Trying to assess her perspective will help you get to the root of any problem. Once you have a clearer picture of what's happening, you can talk to her in a way that makes sense to an 8 year old.

At 8, kids don't fully understand the concept of money. I think it's a great time to help her learn about money, especially that it is earned. You could also talk about getting a savings account, which you can describe as a special privilege usually for grownups (since she acts like she's 20). This will help her learn to save, and she will probably like the idea that the bank will give her a little extra money every month for letting them hold her money.

I have to throw in a little story- I was at Barnes & Noble with Adam, my then 4 year old friend, and told him he could buy two special small things. He loved Dora the Explorer and wanted to get two of her books. He picked out so many things and couldn't decide between two books. He asked if he could get 3 instead of 2, and I said, "I'm sorry sweetie, but I only have enough money to buy you 2 special things." He said, "Well, why can't you go and buy some more money?" Very cute lol.

Good luck, Lori.

Gina
 
Whew... I finally opened this thread because curiosity was getting the better of me.

I thought it was about making your children "Disciples". I was wondering, is "discipling" even a word? I guess it is, so how do you disciple them? LOL!

Now I see you mean "disciplining your children", as in "discipline"! :p
 
Lori--I would tell her when she starts being 'high maintenance' in an attempt to get priveleges back before they're due, that you are ON to her, and she will only continue to get MORE punishment (things taken away) if she doesn't find something constructive to do, and do it quietly. She's just pushing the limts to see what you'll do.

It's hard to believe, but young kids really DO want discipline. It make them feel secure to know there are limits and that you will enforce them. I always had to remind myself about this when I was raising my two kids--now 18 and 20. It seemed like they wanted anything BUT that, but that is what they want in the end.

I have some nieces who's parents don't either one set limits and NEVER enforce anything, and it is absolutely PAINFUL to watch how these two girls will try and try their parents just to get them to set limits and stop them from themselves! These kids act lost and afraid. Your kid will be better for the love and attention that you are goving her now--even if it's in the form of
punishment'.

The panicky feeling you are having about all this is that you CARE. Good for you. But, you can do this without panic. Just realize that you are doing the right thing in setting limits and expecting proper behavior from her. Tell her CALMLY and rationally, not panicky and upset---why you are punishing her, and she'll eventually get it. I was always surprised (and worried) how long it took for the kids to 'get it'. ;-)
 
I don't know that this is the best thing to do, but when my son says, "I hate you", I say "Oh well" in a somewhat detached voice. He's 10, and I've learned that when he's in a mood like that, there's no winning with him. Most of the time, he'll come back and apologize later, on his own.

I've taken TV away from my kids before, but not for more than a day or two. It's good that you don't focus on her being bad when you talk to her. Sometimes it's tough to do that, when they make you really angry. Also, I make certain that if I lose my temper, I apologize to them. One of the things I've read that has made the most sense, and is along the lines of the Golden Rule, is that if you want your kids to show respect, then you have to show respect to them. That's another tough one, when you're really angry.

You did get a lot of good advice here. We're lucky to have this group, aren't we?
 
There always needs to be a consequence for bad behavior. You absolutely need to take something away from her (a privilege, dessert, early bed time, etc...) Words obviously are no big deal to her. You also need to have an effective, firm tone and keep consistent. If you back down or change your mind, you have had no effect. My daughter is 9, and if she ever acted this way I would tell grandpa and grandma, no money for her!! The amount of money is extreme, unless it's put in stocks, that is ludicrous in my book.
 
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