Cathe.... need help with biceps and triceps.

W

WeatherGirl

Cathlete
Whenever I work my biceps, my forearms seem to take the brunt of it. I NEVER feel a burn in biceps. When I work my triceps, I do feel it (and I feel it good!), but for a few days after the tops of my elbows (I suppose where my triceps attach to the joint?) are extremely sore. I had pretty severe cases of Tennis Elbow in both elbows last summer and finally got over it with PT and cutting out upper body weights. Now that I'm back to upper body weights, I'm afraid it's going to flare up again, since I'm again feeling it in my forearms. What can I do to get my biceps to do the work instead of my forearms and elbows? I already do a ton of forearm stretching. Would some sort of wrist brace or something help? What should I watching for in my form? Thanks so much for any advice you can offer.
 
WeatherGirl -

I found some information in my recent OnFitness magazine. When I have time later this evening, I'll post it for you. It might be of some help.

Gibbee
 
Hello, I'd like to see what you found in OnFitness about this too - is it here at the Cathe site somewhere? Or if you could point out which issue maybe I could find it at a store. Thanks!
 
Hi! This was information I found in the July/August issue that just rolled off of the newsstands (unless yours hasn't put in the Sept/Oct issue yet, you might still find a copy).

Frank Zane wrote about how gripping barbells and dumbbells can directly affect your elbows and biceps.

The 4 grips are:

Overhand (palms facing toward the body)
Underhand (palms facing away from your body)
Mixed (one hand overhand / one hand underhand)
Neutral grip (palms face each other).

He maintains (and he is a 3-time Mr. Olympia) that using an overhand grip when gripping a bar can lead to outer elbow injury (tennis elbow). He recommends using a v-bar to maintain a neutral grip to avoid elbow injuries.

With an underhand grip the wrists are in a supinated position, placing a great deal of stress on the inner elbow and lower biceps. He recommends replacing underhand barbell curls with dumbbell curls. He also recommends avoiding bent over barbell rows with this grip as well.

In essence he recommends the neutral grip (palms facing each other) because it alleviates stress on the elbows and puts it on the muscles instead of on the joints. Dumbbells allow any grip you want and allow for wrist rotation as you do your exercises to take stress off of the inner/outer elbows.

He says that he has had several elbow and bicep injuries through the years and uses barbells less frequently now. He said he uses a barbell for wrist curls (very light weight) and close-grip bench press. Everything else he does with dumbbells. He did also recommend using a neutral grip bar if you want to use a barbell.

Now, how scientific that is, I'm not sure, but he has some good experience points. The same concept would apply with barbell tricep extensions - pressure on the wrists and elbow joints.

I know I have problems with my wrists and forearms/elbows when using a barbell with a thick bar (Ivanko (2" diameter)) and recently changed to a 1" diameter barbell and it has helped a lot. I have looked at a curl bar (the one with the v in the bar) and might get one sometime - or even the neutral grip bar (has the long oval with two straight bars in the middle allowing a neutral grip). How hard you're gripping the bar also comes into play, too.

Perhaps you should give a different bar a whirl? What kind of bar are you using?
 
Hello Gibbee, this info on barbells is VERY helpful! It really makes sense to me. One of my suspects for causing this recent injury was that I did skull crushers with a barbell for the first time, with Power Hour. At the time I kept thinking "this is so uncomfortable" but kept slogging away at it. Maybe that is what caused this! I have a 1 inch barbell right now. But I am going to look into the other types of barbells you mention. Also I have a large set of dumbells and I tend to prefer dumbells anyway, so will think about just using them for most things. Come to think of it doing barbell biceps curls with the straight bar has always made me feel uncomfortable too!
 
Ann

I sometimes feel uncomfortable doing those very same exercises with a barbell. For a while I attributed it to the 2" padded barbell but it really is the wrist angle - I get elbow issues on barbell french presses, too.

You can catch one of the barbells I mentioned earlier at Target or Wal-Mart if you want to give one a try - or use dumbbells - always a great substitution.
 
Gibbee, I agree. I have real issues with my right elbow and switched from a standard barbell to an E-Z curl to alleviate the pain. It worked, but only for awhile. Now I mostly use dumbbells so I can make instant hand position adjustments at the first hint of elbow (or shoulder, forearm, or wrist) pain. There's no adjusting with a barbell. Also, when using a barbell, the stronger arm often overcompensates for the weaker. With dumbbells, you can pick up on this problem the minute you realize you have a problem and make instant adjustments. I often feel barbells throw our hands into the most unnatural positions, which impacts everything. If it isn't natural for your wrists to face straight forward when doing a chest press, for instance, you'll feel discomfort clear up to your shoulders. If I use dumbbells I can rotate my wrists into a more natural 3/4 position and get all the benefit with none of the pain. Like one poster said, I used to push the bar up on the chest press and think 'This is uncomfortable.' I'm relieved to find it's not just me.
 
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Wow THANKS!

Gibbee.... this is great info... thanks! I do have a small diameter bar, and my DH has a curling bar, perhaps I should snag that from him and give it a try.

I still wish I could figure out how to really work my biceps, though.... my forearms always seem to be taking it. My biceps *never* burn when I work them, only my forearms. Weird.
 
I remember Cathe saying in her DVD's when working biceps that if the weight you've choosen is heavy, then you may be feeling it in your forearms. Have you tried lowering the weight and keeping very stict form when doing bi's?

I too battled elbow issues, and went through the same PT and no upper body work until it healed. But I've found that working bi's with dumbellsi, as opposed to a straight bar, are much more tolerable to the elbows and Cathe's DVD's still give my bi's a killer workout even at much lighter weights.
 
These replies are all so helpful - thank you to everyone, first of all! I wanted to report that I did a workout with all dumbells and it worked out much better. For example on the stiff-legged deadlift, instead of the barbell Cathe used, I picked up two dumbells and when I leaned over, I let my hands/wrists/arms/elbows/shoulders kinetic chain find their "natural" position, which was at a definite angle, like a V-shape with the V pointing away from my body. Oh what a difference for the better! I am still struggling to heal my right elbow but I am optimistic about solving it now!
 
One thing to check: make sure you are keeping your wrist straight, and aren't bending it at the top of the move, which would engage your forearm muscles more.
 
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